Moral Dilemma involving poker.
I go to a bar in Waterloo every night and there are always people who want to play a sit n go or a quick cash game. There people are usually a little tipsy and are clearly inferior players. Well, most nights I will come out ahead...taking 10-20 off 3 or 5 different people. Last night there was a guy there who just kept wanting to play. We played a $20 sit and go, 50 chips each heads up. 5 hands in he loses. Next game, same type, 11 hands in he loses. Next game, same deal, 3 hands in he loses.
Okay, so I have taken $60 off this guy in about 35 minutes. He looks at me and says I am going to the ATM. He comes back with $200 and says, "$50 heads up Stud". I play him, takes about 40 mins before I have his $50. This pattern continues and I am up $260 minus three beers and some nachos.
Here is my problem...
I know the owner. I am friends with all the staff and the bar, sadly enough, is like my second home. This guy gets his tab of about $60 and cannot pay it. He claims to have no money and is doing it in a voice loud enough for me to clearly hear him. The bartender calls and wakes up the owner to see what to do and all I can think is how this is all my fault. I am usually very indifferent, but I felt bad for some reason.
Console me please. Or tell me I'm a jerk.
Okay, so I have taken $60 off this guy in about 35 minutes. He looks at me and says I am going to the ATM. He comes back with $200 and says, "$50 heads up Stud". I play him, takes about 40 mins before I have his $50. This pattern continues and I am up $260 minus three beers and some nachos.
Here is my problem...
I know the owner. I am friends with all the staff and the bar, sadly enough, is like my second home. This guy gets his tab of about $60 and cannot pay it. He claims to have no money and is doing it in a voice loud enough for me to clearly hear him. The bartender calls and wakes up the owner to see what to do and all I can think is how this is all my fault. I am usually very indifferent, but I felt bad for some reason.
Console me please. Or tell me I'm a jerk.
Comments
it's not your problem. i don't know if i'd play against this guy again, though.
I understand the legalities. But we all break them for a game here and there.
The guy left a fossil watch and a cell phone with the bartender and the bartender paid his bill.
I don't think I could ever spoil relationships with the bar. I am likely putting the owner's daughter through college.
Perhaps paying the bill is the best way to allow you to eat and drink there again. But more importantly play there again.
Make a deal with the bar that you'll pay half.
The guy claimed to be graduating in April and moving to Ottawa where he landed a job in a law office.
(He is a corporate lawyer.)
Again: ALLEGEDLY
If Poker is like a war, why should I be responible for my peers failure?
This isn't Bristol, this is some random guy in a bar running his mouth about poker. I have morals, and I made this post because I felt bad. But when I separate emotion from the fact of the matter. It goes like this. He mentioned poker. He lost. He kept demanding we go again and again. He drank 8 double rum and cokes. He said "fifty bones is peanuts"...but I guess as humans we don't have the luxury to really remove emotion from everything.
Last night th bar was also full of Koreans watching the baseball game where Japan PWNED them. Yeah..I saw 10-15 grown Korean men crying.
I am even laughing now.
Is that bad?
I am not saying you are responsible. I don't give a crap about the other guy. I was referring to your relationship with the bar. Screw the guy that lost the money. Just make sure the bar is okay with it. And they'll let you play again.
The real questions is:
What bar is this and how do I get there?
Seriously, poker is a game that uses skill. You gave it to him "prison style", and cleaned him out. Don't lose any sleep over it.
Johnnie
stp
I am completely lost.
Ask me in person what the bar is called.
Also, what does stp need?
Corporate law 120
Legal Ethics 217 (2nd year course)
and
The book "Family law: The Social workers problem"
I was going to buy these texts new but ....now I can't.
stp
The bartender paid his tab? I would tell the bartender that you will cover the tab if "poker dude" does not come back in. Only because of your relationship with the bar and I assume bartender.
You then get the watch and cell phone.
1) Ask him for a rematch the minute I see him again.
2) Be very carefull walking to my car.
The guy most likely has a problem....hopefully you helped him realize this, you may have actually done a good thing!
And ask yourself, "Would have he kept my money?"
I think you know the answer.
This one lesson may save the guy a lot of money in the long run.
You spot him the $60. He doesnt learn his lesson - next week after a quick trip to the Fallsview he ends up doing a swan dive over Niagara!! You have a moral obligation to teach him this lesson not allow him to keep making the same mistake.
Because there particular people and situations where my personal sense of ethics overcomes my desire to win the game or the money.
These situations include when a player in obviously playing beyond an amount he can afford or has the skill to play. Situations where the fish is extremely drunk, sick, or angry are also games I choose to leave or avoid. I am not talking about tipsy or tilting here, I'm talking about the walking-dead.
Ultimately, it is the fish's responsibility to gamble responsibly, but I still have no interest in being party to his tragedy.
Whether someone else would take the fish's money in the same situation doesn't come into my calculation, nor does whether the fish would take my money, as these factors are external to MY ethics, and determinate on THEIR ethics.
Here's a thread on fullcontact on the topic: http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-forum/index.php?showtopic=52764&hl=ethical&st=0
Lots of interesting hypotheticals.
EDIT: After re-reading this post, it sounds a little harsher than I originally intended. Basically, it's a personal decision, but the fact that the guy is pawning his stuff makes me personally uncomfortable. I'm also poor, which might be related.
Could we get this guy banned please.... ETHICS??? this has no place on a poker forum... Beware the slippery slope... allowing an idea like this to float aimlessly around is just asking for trouble... what's next... ethics in sports? Ethics in business? Ethics in <gasp> politics. I say NO... keep things just the way things are... status quo PLEASE!!!