What's the correct play here?

mcksmith

PokerStars Game #4261023677: Tournament #21183377, Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2006/03/12 - 09:17:46 (ET)
Table '21183377 1' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: mcksmith (3495 in chips)
Seat 4: Sucre d'orge (14960 in chips)
Seat 5: halfpintt (7780 in chips)
Seat 6: EFENDI (4515 in chips)
Seat 7: mile9634 (3965 in chips)
Seat 9: richmutt (5785 in chips)
halfpintt: posts small blind 100
EFENDI: posts big blind 200

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to mcksmith [Ts Tc]
mile9634: folds
richmutt: raises 400 to 600

Top five pay. What's the correct play in this situation and why?

ElElliott

I'd reraise here.

His raise at 3xBB is pretty standard, and you have position on him. If you reraise and he calls, you know he's got strength, but you still have position and can make your decision after the flop. If he reraises you on top, I'd fold.

pkrfce9

Any raise will pretty much commit you to the hand. You haven't said anything about your reads on the opponent. Let's look at your options...

1/ fold. hate it. you are short stacked and figure to be the favourite. if you don't play this hand then you're lucky if you finish 5th.

2/ call. not great. chances are the bb will come along. someone may raise behind you if they sense weakness. overcards will come on close to 75% of the flops but you'll also hit a set on 12% of the flops and have overcards on 25%.

3/ raise. to make it worthwhile, you've got to go to 2k. if you're doing that, you might as well push. chances are you'll pick up 900 chips or get called by some clown with an Ace or King and lose on the river.

I go with the push option and simultaneously register for the next SNG.

SOS

I agree with the re-raise, but not sure you need to go so high as T2,000,
I think raising to T1,200 should be enough to get heads up, then if you get a favourable flop, you can then push the rest,
or you can possibly see a free turn if it's a bad flop but it gets checked to you

pkrfce9

Maybe, but how do you define 'favourable flop'? Do they happen often enough to put 1200 chips at risk?

Tinkerbell

I'm more of a fan of the push in this situation.

What are you going to do with a 1200 reraise and only 1 over card comes? Will you push then? Or are you going to let them push you off your hand?

Too many decisions for me. I push and let them decide if they want to flip that coin.

mcksmith

I didn't have a read on him because I joined him at the final table and the first three dropped out quick. I gave him credit for having a hand but I thought (hoped) it was AK. I thought about a re-raise but if any A or K (or even Q or J) came on the flop I was going to have to let it go and it would've cost me 1/3 of my stack and I was already the short stack.

So I crossed my fingers and hoped he didn't have AA - JJ. He had AKs and the flop came QKJ rainbow giving him top pair but me and open end straight. Turn was a J to give me a couple more outs and the river was a blank and I was done.

I really hate TT in that situation and thought about letting it go but it seems no one else thinks that was a good choice so I'm not totally disappointed with my choice. Maybe if I'd raised and folded on the flop (that's assuming he didn't re-raise pre-flop) I could've still limped into the money but that's a big if.

Big E

mcksmith wrote:

I really hate TT in that situation and thought about letting it go but it seems no one else thinks that was a good choice so I'm not totally disappointed with my choice.  Maybe if I'd raised and folded on the flop (that's assuming he didn't re-raise pre-flop) I could've still limped into the money but that's a big if.

There's no way you're raising then folding an OESD on the flop, it sucks going out just before the money for sure and for me this is a difficult hand to play. I don't agree that you are in push territory just yet, I think really the only bad play would be to call, it allows other in the pot and I think you want to isolate here. Not knowing the 'feel' of the table I would assume it has tightened up, usually close the the bubble it does, so, I would guess the original raiser has something decent and your TT is either way behind a higher pair or slightly ahead of some paint. I guess there is a chance you're ahead of a medium pair but I think that's a slim chance compared to the other two scenarios. I think you could fold here and it would not be a mistake, you've still got some time to make a move...albeit not much time but there are two other stacks close to yours that may make a move and bust out before you. TT is a good hand short handed similar to JJ, I hate them both! and they would be tough to fold but I guess you have to ask yourself do I want to flip a coin right now on the bubble? I agree with the thinking that perhaps a re-raise of about 1200 would really let you know where you stand and make your decision making process much easier. If it's re-raised you can fold and hope to get something decent to push on before the blinds eat you up. If it's called you can push if the flop favours you or dump to a raise (however on this flop I think you go broke).

I like this post, for me this is one of the toughest decisions to make...my gut tells me to re-raise about 1200 but I think had I actually been playing this hand I would have either folded hoping to catch something better and make the money but more likely I would have pushed as well and then smashed my monitor when all was said and done. I think we could argue your options all day, however I think either a push, a re-raise, or a fold could all be considered ok, I don't think you really made a mistake.

Now I have a question......without a raise in front of you how do you play something like this or say 77,88,99,TT,JJ? I still don't think I push here, I think I bet out around 3XBB?

mcksmith

Big E wrote:

Now I have a question......without a raise in front of you how do you play something like this or say 77,88,99,TT,JJ? I still don't think I push here, I think I bet out around 3XBB?

I've only been playing online for a couple weeks so I don't know if this is right but I would first curse my luck because you can't fold those hands short handed but they're vulnerable to so many hands that I raise 2.5 - 3x and hope that either (a) no one has anything and I pick up the blinds or (b) I get called and the flop comes low and ragged and I take the pot there.

Tigerscott

Push or Fold

I like both

Big E

mcksmith wrote:

I've only been playing online for a couple weeks so I don't know if this is right but I would first curse my luck because you can't fold those hands short handed but they're vulnerable to so many hands that I raise 2.5 - 3x and hope that either (a) no one has anything and I pick up the blinds or (b) I get called and the flop comes low and ragged and I take the pot there.

I agree...and this is the way I would have played the hand in your OP as well. IMHO I think it is a slightly, if ever so slightly, better play.

mcksmith

The more I think about it, the less I like my play in most situations. On the bubble with a coin flip at best I probably look for a reason to get away from the hand rather than push. However, in this particular instance I'd had really horrid cards all tourney - only played one hand the first level, nothing the second level, one or two in the third level and finally got four or five hands in the fourth level. In this situation I decided that if I won the toss I'd be above average stack and increase my chances of making it deeper into the money and if I lost, well .. there's always another SnG starting

Although I guess that there was no reason to think I wouldn't get four or five hands in the fifth level and I wasn't short stacked enough to make that move so now that I really think about it, I'm not a fan of my play at all.

Thanks for the advice y'all 8)