Unusual Blind Structure - Advice???

JimmyHoJimmyHo
in General Poker Chat
I have been playing in a home game with an unusual blind structure. Basically each player starts with $500 in chips and the blinds start off at 10/20. Every time a player is eliminated from the table, the blinds basically double (20/40, 40/80, 50/100, 75/150, 100/200). So effectively your M goes from 17-8-3-2-1 with every player eliminated. The problem is that players are being eliminated after a couple of hands and in some cases the blinds had gone up to 40/80 with out the deal making a complete rotation of the table. This is a great way to speed the game along and ensure there are multiple tournaments in one evening, but this blind structure doesn't give you much time to sit and wait for a decent hand. Any advice on playing this type of blind structure? Obviously you want to play a lot of hands at the beginning before the blinds start to eat into your chips. We are usually starting with a single table of 10 players.

PokerJAH

Comments

  • haddonhaddon
    Uhh...

    Don't play in games with such ridiculous blinds. I'm sure if the guy is a poker student and you tell him to read something about how blinds should work he'll think about changing them.

    If you are STUCK at these blinds, maybe try and convince him to have the first level not go up upon elimination and instead have the first level last 30 mins THEN go up with eliminations. Also, use two decks, that way you will get tons of hands in before your M is 8... :D

    (Note: I never post in advice threads like these because basically I'm 12. ;))
  • beanie42beanie42
    Show the blind schedule to Zithal and watch Rob go postal on your clueless friend for making a mockery of his life's work ;)
  • BigChrisElBigChrisEl
    pokerJAH wrote:
    I have been playing in a home game with an unusual blind structure.  Basically each player starts with $500 in chips and the blinds start off at 10/20.  Every time a player is eliminated from the table, the blinds basically double (20/40, 40/80, 50/100, 75/150, 100/200).  So effectively your M goes from 17-8-3-2-1 with every player eliminated.  The problem is that players are being eliminated after a couple of hands and in some cases the blinds had gone up to 40/80 with out the deal making a complete rotation of the table. This is a great way to speed the game along and ensure there are multiple tournaments in one evening, but this blind structure doesn't give you much time to sit and wait for a decent hand.  Any advice on playing this type of blind structure?  Obviously you want to play a lot of hands at the beginning before the blinds start to eat into your chips. We are usually starting with a single table of 10 players.

    PokerJAH

    Well it depends on the buy-in, I've played a few very low limit games like this ($5 buy-in) with some friends and it's ok to start out with a structure like this but becomes a real push fest towards the end. (Really it is a real push fest with any good cards).

    You may want to suggest a more structured game with the angle that is how they play it on TV. You could just use a stop watch or egg time and say the blind go up every 10 or 15 minutes if time is an issue.
  • WaterLooserWaterLooser
    10 mins is fast and typically isn't even a rotation (depending on the number of players) but at least it's consitent and you can adjust play with a little more room.
  • JimmyHoJimmyHo
    I have suggested using tournament director to keep the blinds at a set time limit as an alternative but they seem to like this structure better as it is less complicated.  The games have very low buy-ins, $10-$20 per game.  I guess I'm trying to decide whether I want to play at these home games every couple of weeks, or if it is just a push fest, then it really is a waste of time and money.
  • BigChrisElBigChrisEl
    pokerJAH wrote:
    I have suggested using tournament director to keep the blinds at a set time limit as an alternative but they seem to like this structure better as it is less complicated.  The games have very low buy-ins, $10-$20 per game.  I guess I'm trying to decide whether I want to play at these home games every couple of weeks, or if it is just a push fest, then it really is a waste of time and money.

    They say the structure is less complicated but it is not, what happens when two players go out at the same time, or no one goes out for over 1/2 an hour, then things start getting complicated. As I said the "As seen on TV" is usually enough to get people to switch. Also I find it unusually that they have chip values but then double the blinds every time some on goes out. Why not just have 50 chips to start and makes the blinds 1 and 2?
  • Big EBig E
    Zithal is the blind master...that is not to say that he cannot see, he can see clearly now, the rain is gone....forward any blind questions to him he is the guru.
  • haddonhaddon
    Read his past threads too. I believe there is an essay somewhere I read by him as well. Great learning tools.
  • ZithalZithal
    pokerJAH wrote:
    I have been playing in a home game with an unusual blind structure. Basically each player starts with $500 in chips and the blinds start off at 10/20. Every time a player is eliminated from the table, the blinds basically double (20/40, 40/80, 50/100, 75/150, 100/200). So effectively your M goes from 17-8-3-2-1 with every player eliminated. The problem is that players are being eliminated after a couple of hands and in some cases the blinds had gone up to 40/80 with out the deal making a complete rotation of the table. This is a great way to speed the game along and ensure there are multiple tournaments in one evening, but this blind structure doesn't give you much time to sit and wait for a decent hand. Any advice on playing this type of blind structure? Obviously you want to play a lot of hands at the beginning before the blinds start to eat into your chips. We are usually starting with a single table of 10 players.

    PokerJAH

    Long ago we tried a quick tournament with this format and it doesn't play well to tight players. As you mentioned, the rate of rise of the blinds is completely out of whack with the rate of rise of the average chip stack. ie, If you starting stack is 500 and the starting blind is 10-20, then the following table really spells it out...


    LEVEL

    Level 1
    Level 2
    Level 3
    Level 4
    Level 5
    Level 6

    Blinds v Starting Blinds

    1x (20)
    2x (40)
    4x (80)
    5x (100)
    7.5x (150)
    10x (200)

    Average Stack (10 players) v starting stack

    1x (500)
    1.1x (555)
    1.25x (625)
    1.4x (714)
    1.7x (833)
    2x (1000)


    So, after half the field is eliminated the blinds are 10x higher that what they started at, but the average chip stack is only 2x as big! The pace of the game is completely decided by looseness of the players remaining in it. This is a COMPLETELY disavantageous to tight players.

    In the game that I played, I didn't play a single hand while a loose maniac busted out everyone else at the table in less than two rotations. I was heads up, but with an M of suddenly less than 1.

    Few suggestions...

    - If they like how fast they get through games (though I'm guessing that the length of a tournament is all over the place in a format like this), mention that you can come up with a format that will last just as long. Demonstrating it, is the only way you'll win them over. Give us a starting chipstack, and a length of time and we'll design you a tournament. There's a lot of people on here that like doing that!
    - If they're dead set against it, then you're best bet is to alter the format to try to keep the rise of the average chip stack on pace with the rise of the blinds. Without going into too much detail, the easiest way to do this is to get them to remain on a level for a number of bust outs. (ie. The blinds start at 10-20 (aside: 5-10 is a better number for a $500 chip stack), and they go up to 15-30 after two players bust, then 20-40 after another two players bust.) this will likely increase the length of time it takes to play, but probably not by much.
    - Grin and bear it. Plainly said, the format sucks. If they're not willing to change it, either accept the fact that you're going there to play bingo or stay away.

    If you're going to do "blind up after each bust out", here's a suggestion to get them to try. If players are busting out during the first rotation, then they'll do that regardless of how low the blinds are...

    10 players left: 5-10
    9 players left: 5-10
    8 players left: 10-20
    7 players left: 15-30
    6 players left: 20-40
    5 players left: 25-50
    4 players left: 40-60
    3 players left: 50-100
    2 players left: 100-200

    It may seem like they're not going up fast enough, but I'm sure it'll work. When it's heads up, there are only going to be 25BBs on the table.
  • JimmyHoJimmyHo
    wow, you are truly the blind master! I think we are looking at each tournament lasting probably an hour at most and there are usually ten players at one table. Each person usually is assigned 50 chips at $10 each but the total amount of starting chips is flexible, although we usually only use 500 chips in total. I guess this format gives each player an even shot at the pot where players are at varying skill level.

    PokerJAH
  • drujuwontondrujuwonton
    I often play in a home game with friends with a very similar structure. They're only $10 buy-ins, and as others have noted the main reason this kind of structure is used is for speed...we try to get through 3-4 games in a 4-hour period or so. Obviously this structure has huge disadvantages, but we try and keep it as friendly as possible with many different players at various skill levels.
  • JimmyHoJimmyHo
    glad to see another Rasta on the forum...maybe you will appreciate this one:

    "Rastamon BET so high, rich and poor they start a cry" :D

    Thanks for the advice....
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