Mental distraction/exhaustion at the table.
Here is a general question for the crowd:
I am curious to see how distraction/exhaustion is impacting other players??
I am finding it difficult to maintain the long term concentration that is essential for tournament wins. Pretty much anything beyond 3 hours and I am losing interest.
I can primarily think of a few reasons for this occurrence:
1. My capacity to concentrate is tapped. This is happening for numerous reasons, including but not limited to: Poker – I used to play a few times a month and was always really pumped about playing. Now there is a tourney in KW about 3x a week!!! Also, my work is 100% mental – so for 35 hours a week I am basically problem solving, generating statistics and reports. Week night games are a killer – after spending a day at work. So this is my first hypothesis – My mind capacity is simply tapped and therefore cannot focus for long periods of time at the poker table.
2. Real life poker is slow and stationary. Don’t get me wrong I love playing poker with the folks I play with – I consider many of them good friends and enjoy the time spent. However, internet play is fast, a 10 person SNG will last only a little over an hour and you can play a 2000 person MTT in about 5. Also you can get up move around – you don’t have to shuffle – you cant keep physical notes not mental ones – and honestly the competition is generally weaker than my average “Saturday Night†game - the people I play with are great players and you cant let up for a second or you are out.
3. Monetary Value: Often real life games coincide with my most profitable internet playing time. When I have only contributed $10 - $20 to play in a game I don’t feel that I care as much about the outcome (I could be playing someone for their first time at PLO8 – and cleaning up
.)
I am not sure it is any one of these, or a combination of these that are affecting my long term concentration at the table – but it is definitely something. In the past – when I had first moved to KW and was not aware of the huge poker community – I would play 10-12 sessions at Brantford and could stay alert and on my game for the entire time (maybe it was the free coffee on tap). And I was so excited about the odd big tourney you would get - I stayed alert the whole way through. Some where this capability disappeared. Basically, I am doing an evaluation to determine "where the dominos stopped"
Just looking for anyone advise or similar experiences others may share – when after x amount of time sitting at a table you lose your capacity to pay attention, maintain your game or even care???
Thanks:
I am curious to see how distraction/exhaustion is impacting other players??
I am finding it difficult to maintain the long term concentration that is essential for tournament wins. Pretty much anything beyond 3 hours and I am losing interest.
I can primarily think of a few reasons for this occurrence:
1. My capacity to concentrate is tapped. This is happening for numerous reasons, including but not limited to: Poker – I used to play a few times a month and was always really pumped about playing. Now there is a tourney in KW about 3x a week!!! Also, my work is 100% mental – so for 35 hours a week I am basically problem solving, generating statistics and reports. Week night games are a killer – after spending a day at work. So this is my first hypothesis – My mind capacity is simply tapped and therefore cannot focus for long periods of time at the poker table.
2. Real life poker is slow and stationary. Don’t get me wrong I love playing poker with the folks I play with – I consider many of them good friends and enjoy the time spent. However, internet play is fast, a 10 person SNG will last only a little over an hour and you can play a 2000 person MTT in about 5. Also you can get up move around – you don’t have to shuffle – you cant keep physical notes not mental ones – and honestly the competition is generally weaker than my average “Saturday Night†game - the people I play with are great players and you cant let up for a second or you are out.
3. Monetary Value: Often real life games coincide with my most profitable internet playing time. When I have only contributed $10 - $20 to play in a game I don’t feel that I care as much about the outcome (I could be playing someone for their first time at PLO8 – and cleaning up
.)I am not sure it is any one of these, or a combination of these that are affecting my long term concentration at the table – but it is definitely something. In the past – when I had first moved to KW and was not aware of the huge poker community – I would play 10-12 sessions at Brantford and could stay alert and on my game for the entire time (maybe it was the free coffee on tap). And I was so excited about the odd big tourney you would get - I stayed alert the whole way through. Some where this capability disappeared. Basically, I am doing an evaluation to determine "where the dominos stopped"
Just looking for anyone advise or similar experiences others may share – when after x amount of time sitting at a table you lose your capacity to pay attention, maintain your game or even care???
Thanks:
Comments
A mostly play cash games and limit my sessions to 6-8 hours unless the table is exceptionally good and I'm not very tired. For me, this is usually where I hit a reasonable psychological wall. Not in regards to exhaustion, but if I'm up $600 after 6 hours I start playing too tight as I don't want to give it back. I've learned this with experience. Same thing with chasing losses. I find it best to lose and leave than wreck my whole next day by staying until 12pm the next day to get even. Having a set session time before I go to a game is very beneficial to me.
As for tournaments, only once have I gone to a live tournament and not been in the right mindset to play. This was dueto the fact that I was already obligated to play and then felt ill the morning I went. Playing 8-10 hours of poker has never been a problem for me. Why else go to a tournament if you're not prepared for the entirety of it?
I think you need to focus more on games that are right for you rather than building on endurance. I say this because for most players I know an 8 hour session was never something they had to work on, they simply always had the focus to play 8 hours of poker. If you can only focus 3-4 hours then focus on cash games for a while as you can leave whenever you like.
One of the most profitable decisionsin poker is to never play when you're not in the mood and to play games that interest you. For me, it used to beinternet poker that got me into trouble. I would play sessions of 5 10 and 10 20 and be successful, but would be sitting around at times watching television and fire up stars or party when I didn't really feel like playing and play a $30 MTT and a table of 2 4 or something and lose money at both as I got bored 1/2 way through the MTT and also stopped caring about the 2 4 game as it was only 2 4.
I forget the question, but basically only play when you're in the mood to play and only play games that interest you.
Since I play a lot of the tourney's you play Tom, I have the same problem, after spending my whole day thinking, juggling numbers etc, driving over an hour to play a lot of the time I'm not at my best, but I do like most of the people I play against and again it's a night out. For 20-30 bucks, I could drink for several hours or go to KW and play cards for a few hours or more. And whether I win or lose, the money doesn't matter to me, as it would get spent anyways.
If I get into the right mind set, I hurt for a long time. After the Royal Cup I was totally wiped from playing. Not so much that time for the money, but this was certainly a LARGE pride thing on the forum.
Now to get the monkey out of the brain and get serious for tonight. Whether I get past today or not, doesn't matter to me as long as I play good poker. Suck outs will always happen, it's just knowing when your ahead and get your money in there. While I don't have Mario and Braad to contend with, there are others tonight who are just as bad......
As far as on-line, if I'm not in the mood, I simply don't play. And while on-line is more profitable, the challenge and enjoyment of our live games is hard to overcome. I'd equate it to a young kid getting to practice with a pro team - the competition is tougher in practice, but probably more fun. To me game selection isn't simply about my edge, but also about my enjoyment.
As GTA said, find the game that's right for you. If your desire to earn is much stronger, than ignore some of the live games. And if you start waning after 3 hours, try playing more SnG's and avoid the bigger/longer tournaments. At most of our live games, you'll have no problem finding a (shorter) side game if you just show up a few hours late
Nothing like a full candle/soft music yoga session, but a few centering exercises when I found myself wandering mentally.
Plus, just as at work, take a break every 60 mins or so and actually (if possible) go for a 5 minute walk and get some fresh air. When possible, go outside for fresh air. Don't just sit at the table during the break and talk.
A few tips from someone who can no longer concentrate long enough to finish a sente .....
-Move up in limits and I think you will find you care a lot more.
-Don't play after work if you are not in the mood, especially a few times a week.
Hellmuth and Hanson both swear on fresh air. I always walk on breaks. Sitting at the table and talking is not for me. Coming back from a brisk 5 minute walk on break is almost like starting again.
Tom,
I think what you have to consider as well is the how often you play with the people that you do. In Brantford, you are spending 12 hours with a bunch of people that you could give two hoots whether they dropped right there.
At Beanies's, Rob's, WestSides etc...you are playing with friends. Conversations come up at the table that dominate the play at times. And they are draining.
You are also one to not pass on a topic...you contribute to most of the chatter/conversations at the table. (this isn't a knock, I'm involved in conversations 3 tables over that don't have a f'king thing to do with me...).
So, concentration is tough when you are playing with the group that we do as the social part takes over, but, that can also lead you to donking off your chips.
My day 1 table at Bristol was like no other I had played at. There were 2 players I had a lot of respect for, neither talk much. It wasn't the "fun" that Bristol usually is.
I did find though that I though I played some of my better poker. As there weren't the distractions/fun that usually take most of my attention.
I think it has more to do with the fact that you play with the same group 2x week than the limits/work/day of the week. Familiarity takes away the intensity/concentration.
I bet if you popped back into Brantford you'd be able to sit back down to a 12 hour session with no issues. Not because of the limits, but, because of the people at the table.
D
Nothing keeps you alert and mentally sharp like artificial energy.
Actually, a bottle of water per rotation for an hour or so will cause you to have to pee and force you to take the appropriate breaks to keep sharp.
Also it would be interesting if Zithal had some stats on bust outs close to a break, since he tracks the time of the bust outs. I wonder if statistically there are more bust outs close to a break as opposed to just after a break, again possibly due to mental exhaustion.
(1) Stand up a lot. Every three or four hands I stand up and stretch. I am always amazed at how little standing up players do.
(2) Accept that I cannot keep 100% focus all the time. I try and recognize when I have my "A" game and when I do not. If I don't then I put away the tricky stuff.
My current "five finger checklist"
Thumb -- How am I playing?
Index -- What hands will beat me?
Middle -- What does he have?
Ring -- What will he do with it?
Pinky -- Has my monkey mind gone blank.
Actually, I think some of this is why the final table of 9 moved to 6 so quickly. There were a lot of really marginal/bad calls being made at the end of the day and I think everyone was feeling the effects of a long day of poker.
We worked it out that the heads up players suffered through nearly 20 hours of poker to be named champion.
I actually don't see a lot of bust outs before a break starts because most people hit cruise control for the last couple minutes. Elimination come again once the blinds raise up after the break.
I like this response:
People rarely do stand up - and by the time they do its generally too late - they are standing to leave!
I like this finger index - it is a great way to keep concentrated on the fundamentals of poker strategy - which at the point of exhaustion is necessary (I strongly believe it is the fundamentals that are necessary at this point - not trying to remember what Harrington did in exercise 10.1)
I am pretty good, in online play, at reviewing the fundamentals during my play - especially during big hands. But this is because I can verbally go through all the steps - which I find to be a huge help.
It is pretty obvious why I cant verbally go through these steps in real life.
I like this index system - and will probably adopt it tonight - to help deal with the expected Chaos at Beanies.