I must be playing with Kyle too much (NL Tourney Hand)

SirWatts

OK TLOBS Day 1A. Blinds 100/200 I have about 12K, others in the pot are probably around 10K I really don't remember.

Moose raises to 400 from early-middle position, Mandy calls in the CO, Hero calls with 64h inthe small blind and BB folds

FLOP: (1400) 8c 6c 4s

Hero checks, Moose fires out 2000, Mandy insta-calls, Hero ?

Hork42

Lower the BOOM.

p.s. I actually wouldn't mind if I didn't have to face you on day 2

beanie42

Ugh, ugly hand, this is tough.  First, simply calling makes the pot $7400, so any future raises (from you or the other players) are probably for all the chips.  I think you need to move-in or fold.  I also think that you are getting at least 1 caller, although I wouldn't be surprised to see both call. With that out of the way, your hand. 

There is a flush draw and a straight (made or draw) possible, in addition to other possible sets or 2-pair (unlikely, but possible) which beat you.  I think you may be ahead here, but there are so many things that they could have which already beat you or draws which could materialize, I'd probably fold and get out of the way.  Maybe a bit of MUBS, but the board is just too scary IMO, especially if you think (like I do) that this is going to showdown.

Looking forward to hearing what you did and what happened - this is a pretty interesting hand.

ScottyZ

I would move all-in.

Moose probably either has an overpair or is simply trying to pick up the pot on the 8-high flop with unimproved hole cards. Mandy probably has a flush draw. It seems pretty unlikely that your hand is currently behind, and the board is scary.

With the board as co-ordinated as it is, I don't like calling and seeing what the turn brings. Besides the obvious consequence of your opponents actually outdrawing you on the turn, there are a lot of scary looking cards on the turn that will force you to shut down (and in some cases expose you to a turn bluff or semi-bluff). You'll too often be left guessing as to whether or not one of your opponents has actually improved on the turn.

Could folding be an option here? I don't think I would fold it. If someone has actually outflopped bottom two pair here, then it's pretty much a "that's poker" moment. Otherwise you are a solid favorite with a vulnerable hand against most other hands your opponents might have.

BTW, nice check on the flop. :cool:

ScottyZ

SirWatts

Well as the name suggested if you know how I always joke with Kyle I folded. I put Moose on AA/KK, but I had no idea what the hell Mandy had. I've played with her a few times and I know she wouldn't just throw 2K out there like it's nothing if she didn't have something big. Even if she had a big draw she would have thought about it. However on the other hand when Iwas thinking about this later I realized I haven't really seen her get tricky and slowplay before either, which makes it less likely she has something like a set. So what does she have?? I couldn't figure it out and decided to lay it down. Had I thought a bit more I might have remembered she's passive enough that she often doesn't reraise preflop with pretty big pairs like QQ/JJ, but even then the instacall seemed out of character facing a bet that size. So I weaktighted out, the turn was an ace, Moose checked, Mandy bet 1500, Moose pushed and Mandy folded black queens face up. I can't see Moose making this move with less than a set, maybe AKc. I thought he turned a set of aces, I think he said he had me but he didn't say what his hand was. Oh well. I made other mistakes that were a lot more clear cut than this one to look at and fix. Still lots of time to build a stack on day 2.

specialK

I fold preflop. you aren't even on my level. mandy is so tight, her insta-calling the 2K on the flop is SCARY. good fold i think, though i have never played with moose i don't think. oh yeah, and since when were you joking?

wader

Call the flop bet and move in on turn if a brick hits.

Wader

SirWatts

Ugh I really don't think this is a good option, I don't really put either on a draw so I'm moving in or folding, no reason to let them both see one for free, but a scare card could still shut me down. Plus It looks more like I could be semibluffing on the flop so I can get called by overpairs.

wader

SirWatts wrote:

Ugh I really don't think this is a good option, I don't really put either on a draw so I'm moving in or folding, no reason to let them both see one for free, but a scare card could still shut me down.  Plus It looks more like I could be semibluffing on the flop so I can get called by overpairs.

How cant you put 1 of them on a draw

SirWatts

Well it was more my instinct from playing with them before but i admit I could easily be wrong, though I felt strongly that Mandy didn't, Moose could have one though he has some tricks. In any event I don't like letting them both see the turn. There are too many scare cards that shut me down so I prefer getting it all-in on the flop. Any club,8,7,5 is bad (though it's less likely someone has a straight draw so bluffing at a non-club 7 or5 might be a good idea), and if they're not on draws I might get bluffed off if a 3rd club falls, or give a free card and have something else bad fall on the river. This isn't a time to sit on the fence. I need to move decisively in one direction, the pot is too big already to start getting cute.