Thurs March 2 - $50 freezeout - 8:30

ElElliottElElliott
in Poker Games
Hey guys,

Got a game together for this Thursday at 8:30 at my place.

There are a few Ching Hill leaguers we haven't seen in awhile - it'd be nice to see you out.

Player list:
BigChrisEl
ElElliott
Allen
Wyndham
derksen
Dave (tentative)
Eric (tentative)
STR82ACE
BusDriver

If we don't get 8 players, we'll payout top 2 spots. Otherwise, it's top 3 like normal.

Let me know if you're in.

Update: BusDriver & AJ confirmed, but JHJ is sick in bed....so we have 7 for sure. I'm still waiting to hear from Eric & Dave.

Comments

  • STR82ACESTR82ACE
    I'm IN
  • STR82ACESTR82ACE
    Good game last night everyone. Who ended up winning it anyway?

    Not sure I like the antes though. I was a little short stacked to begin with, but when those antes kicked it, it really started to hurt. For me it turned into more of a bingo once the antes kicked in.
  • BigChrisElBigChrisEl
    Allen 1st
    Eleanor 2nd
    Jeff 3rd

    Not sure if I like the antes too, the jump was very pricey to go from 30-60 to 50-100 with a 25 ante. Also being short stacked and making that jump doesn't really give you many options other then "have an ace, make it a race". Plus I found the antes really changed the dynamic of the game. Maybe if there was antes earlier (say from the beginning, 5-10 with a 5 ante) or have one round repeat and then added the antes in (50-100 then 50-100 with 25 ante) it wouldn't feel like such a large jump, but as soon as the ante was added it became very difficult for the short stacks to have any moves other then all-in and then be called by a large stack cause they have odds.

    Once it was down to 3 the antes were not so much a factor, it was only a factor with 5 and both STR82ACE and I being very short stacked.
  • ElElliottElElliott
    STR82ACE wrote:
    Not sure I like the antes though. I was a little short stacked to begin with, but when those antes kicked it, it really started to hurt. For me it turned into more of a bingo once the antes kicked in.

    Yeah.....I'm not so keen on them either. I think antes are valuable in a longer tourney with longer blind structures (maybe?).

    For a small tourney like our league games, I'm not sure they really add something to the game.
  • TheBusDriverTheBusDriver
    Well, that was I always thought the antes were for, to speed up the eliminations of the short stacks. :D

    Cruel I know, and it hurts when you find yourself on the short stack. I'm good with or without. It's a strategic adjustment for sure. Just one more thing to be alert for.

    On second thought. Maybe we should take out antes completely.
  • STR82ACESTR82ACE
    If we keep the antes, I would rather see them start at the 100/200 level than the 50/100 level. Paying a 25 % ante really chews into your stacks.
  • Hork42Hork42
    You don't need antes for a 2-table tournament.
  • ElElliottElElliott
    Hork42 wrote:
    You don't need antes for a 2-table tournament.

    Hork has spoken. Can we officially eliminate the antes now?
  • BigChrisElBigChrisEl
    TheBusDriver wrote:
    Well, that was I always thought the antes were for, to speed up the eliminations of the short stacks.  :D

    Cruel I know, and it hurts when you find yourself on the short stack.  I'm good with or without.  It's a strategic adjustment for sure.  Just one more thing to be alert for.

    On second thought.  Maybe we should take out antes completely.

    I think the ante idea was to speed up the game for the final few players and both games we had them I don't think it really made that much of a difference to the final 3.

    Yes last night it basically got rid of the short stacks (STR82ACE and I) but once we were gone the antes didn't really seem to make much difference. Also for STR82ACE and I our hands became all-ins or fold and me personally I like to see a flop and then make a decision but with the blinds and antes it left no choice.

    I think if we are going to go with antes they should be implemented early on in the game or not at all.

    Personally I like the format the way we had it last season, having 3 hour game with about 12 people is not too unreasonable to me.
  • Hork42Hork42
    Personally I like the format the way we had it last season, having 3 hour game with about 12 people is not too unreasonable to me.

    I agree... remind me why we want this changed? Games going too long?
  • derksenderksen
    Hork42 wrote:
    Personally I like the format the way we had it last season, having 3 hour game with about 12 people is not too unreasonable to me.

    I agree... remind me why we want this changed?  Games going too long?

    Greg had to be home by 23:15.
  • Hork42Hork42
    derksen wrote:
    Hork42 wrote:
    Personally I like the format the way we had it last season, having 3 hour game with about 12 people is not too unreasonable to me.

    I agree... remind me why we want this changed?  Games going too long?

    Greg had to be home by 23:15.


    That usually was not a problem, was it? He doesn't HAVE to stay to watch after he busts out.
  • pkrfce9pkrfce9
    Hork42 wrote:
    You don't need antes for a 2-table tournament.
    Tell that to Pokerstars.

    The idea of antes is to speed up the end game, while still allowing lots of play in the first hour or two.

    I think the problem with what has been tested so far is the simultaneous jump in the blinds and the imposition of antes. The Stars schedule works great for a 1 hour SNG. We can do the same for 3 hours by tripling the length of each level. I'll post the Stars schedule later if no one has dug it up in the meantime.

    Stars starts with 1500 chips, blinds of 10/20 and I believe 10 minute rounds. Antes kick in after 100/200. We start with 1000 chips, blinds of 5/10 and 20 minute rounds.
  • STR82ACESTR82ACE
    I've been reviewing alot of posts on the pros and cons of antes, especially from those who have ALOT more experience and expertise than I do (Zithal). From what I can find, antes for games with less than 24 players are not recommended and only muddy the waters. Once you get that many players though, you almost need antes, especially when you are playing within time constraints.

    My personal thoughts on this matter is that they are not necessary for our group, at least not yet.

    I'm not really keen on 10 minute blind levels either (my personal opinion only), although if you get the schedule from Stars, Greg, I can take a look at it and we can discuss it more.

    I know we have our similiars to PokerStars (who hasn't been beaten on the river in one of our games?), but not sure if we want to duplicate their structure or not.
  • pkrfce9pkrfce9
    Stars SNG blind structure:

    1500 chips to start. 10 minute levels.

    10/20
    15/30
    25/50
    50/100
    75/150
    100/200
    100/200 25
    200/400 25
    300/600 50

    rarely gets this far at Stars let alone past it but we seem to be getting to the 10th level and beyond.

    We start with 1000 chips and 5/10 blinds with 20 minute levels. So we have 100BB vs Stars' 75BB to start. That gives us extra play right off the bat. In our experiment with antes, I don't think they came in until much later and were smaller as well so they didn't have much impact.

    One option is to use the Stars' starting chips and blind levels exactly but increase the level duration to 30 minutes. That should complete the game in about 3 hours. Or leave the blinds alone and shorten the duration of the levels to maybe 15 minutes. Or, we could drop a couple of our early levels.

    I'm not sure how strongly others feel about this but I'd like be able to complete a game within 3 hours. And yes, I can always leave after I bust out...
  • STR82ACESTR82ACE
    Thanks Greg.

    Why don't we try it for the first game or two at the 100/200 level? This way, it's only an additional 12.5% over the BB, and it SHOULD be only for those who make it this far with decent chip stacks by this level. That alone should help end it abit sooner for everyone.
  • pkrfce9pkrfce9
    Sure. I'd repeat 100/200 and add the 25 ante there. Maybe drop one of the earlier levels like the 15/30.
  • STR82ACESTR82ACE
    That sounds like a plan. I set up TD with that layout then for this Thursday.
  • BigChrisElBigChrisEl
    I honestly don't think we need to change the blind format. We played 11 games with the old format and there were no real problems.

    Why change it if we were able to play 11 games with out issue?
  • ElElliottElElliott
    I'm not sure using an online blind format has any relevance to a live game - # of hands dealt, type of player etc are quite different.

    There were only a couple of games that I felt ran long - I really don't see the need to change the blind structure. I was ambivilent before, but now after trying two different structures with antes, I don't think they add anything valuable to our game.
  • derksenderksen
    I concur with the Elliotts.
  • pkrfce9pkrfce9
    So if I'm not in the minority on the antes, those opposed are more vocal about it. I think I count 4 clearly opposed (Hork, BigChris, Derek, Eleanor) to antes so far.

    I only played in one game with antes. I don't believe they were set up properly to achieve the goals of giving lots of play early but finishing quickly when we get down to 3 or 4 remaining. I'd like to give antes one more shot as recently outlined by AJ (kick in after 2 hours). If that doesn't work out I'll cave and agree to go without antes.

    Or if there are at least 6 clearly opposed to antes now, I'll drop the suggestion. Let's clarify this before Thurs so all know what to expect.
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