What would you do?
ok im in BB with 46 unsuited, UTG calls, 1 other calls and i check
flop comes 578, 2 diamonds. UTG goes all in for about 1/4 of our stacks, other caller thinks for a long time and calls, I have both of them covered so I go all in, forcing the middle caller to either go all in or fold as i have him covered.I also have the middle caller covered by a significant amount.
Middle caller ended up making a flush on the river, both are loose players and I knew for certain i had the nuts after the flop as nothing else was actually able to beat my hand.
Was it a bad play by me moving all in, or a bad play to be called on a draw by the middle player? Was it a good play to call if you are in the middle players position? I was a little pissed about it, but in my way of thinking he had 1 in 4 x2 of making a flush.
What would you do? Chase like that or let it go? He also didnt have the nut flush draw, it was a queen high draw if i remember correctly.
flop comes 578, 2 diamonds. UTG goes all in for about 1/4 of our stacks, other caller thinks for a long time and calls, I have both of them covered so I go all in, forcing the middle caller to either go all in or fold as i have him covered.I also have the middle caller covered by a significant amount.
Middle caller ended up making a flush on the river, both are loose players and I knew for certain i had the nuts after the flop as nothing else was actually able to beat my hand.
Was it a bad play by me moving all in, or a bad play to be called on a draw by the middle player? Was it a good play to call if you are in the middle players position? I was a little pissed about it, but in my way of thinking he had 1 in 4 x2 of making a flush.
What would you do? Chase like that or let it go? He also didnt have the nut flush draw, it was a queen high draw if i remember correctly.
Comments
1. huh? are you saying he had straight outs as well as flush outs???
2. huh? he was chasing not you, unless he did have 12 or more outs as stated above thus making it a coinflip or better for him.
Again sorry for my lack of explanation, or odd way of thinking in my explanations. What I meant, was would you chase with a Flush draw like that after being raised all in, or let it go?( Rational semi attentive, remotely serious poker players make a call like that on a draw?) it wasnt the nut flush draw, but after playing with these guys ive come to realize that all draws are basically the same to them. I guess ive answered my own question, but would any of YOU have made the same call? If so Why?
This is my first hand ive asked for some opinions on, so excuse the fact i may not have explained things properly or was totally doing the math wrong. If you require specific information to make a valid assesment on the hand and that information isnt present id be more than happy to add it. Hopefully these get better as i do them.
Was drawing to a Q high flush a mistake? Hard to say. What you failed to mention was the size of the stacks relative to the BB and your table image.
It looks like the pot has 3 or 3.5BB pre-flop. I'm guessing he had overs as well as a flush draw. He may have had a better hand than UTG already or if not, perhaps he had as many as 15 outs for the win. You haven't shown any interest in the flop so he can't think you've hit a monster. Depending on how much the call is and the types of hands he could put UTG on, it could be correct to chase here. Once he calls, the pot already represents more than 65% of his stack.
When you go all-in, depending on your image, he's got to expect you've got something. Again, he would expect to have somewhere between 9 and 15 outs here. So now he's getting maybe 2-1 or a bit better on the rest of his stack. These are not great odds but not terrible either, depending on how many outs he figures he has. The BB relative to stack size is important here. If it's pretty high, he's much more likely to call.
A better move would be for him to raise. Of course you'd still go all-in but he'd have a much easier call. Same result.
Was your move a mistake? No. You were 65% likely to win so it's always good to get your money in with those kind of odds. You just didn't hit your 43 outs twice in a row. Poker sucks sometimes.
Wader
For sake of argument I will make certain assumptions.
UTG has 2 chips.
Other caller has 6 chips.
Our hero has 10 chips.
UTG moves all-in for 2 (pot is now five total).
Other caller calls (pot is not 7 total).
Hero moves in for 4 more -- that's all "other caller" has (pot is now 11 total)
"other caller" faces a call of 4 into a pot of 11. His 9 outs to a flush draw are about 2-1 to get there. He is getting almost 3-1 on his call. It is a mandatory call for him.
Obviously, the stack sizes matter. If UTG as 2 chips, other caller has 100, and our hero has 110 then "other caller" should fold to the all-in raise from our hero.
My guess is that you shoudl have waited until the turn to move all in.
There are certain players who WILL NOT fold a flush draw under any circumstances. If "other player" is one of these monkeys then wait until the turn to get the chips in. In this way you will avoid a big loss when the flush gets there on the turn and you will still get all the money in with a big edge by moving in when the flush does not make it on the turn.
It was a good play from you AND a good call from him (if something akin to my assumptions is correct).
This will depend on how many chips each player had.
Again, I don't know. It will really be a matter of how many chips are in the players' stacks and how many chips are in the pot.
UTG-750
MP- 2500
Me- 6000