Deepstack Dilemna

SirWatts

What's my line here? It seems easy enough but i'd like to play a small pot if possible. From the big 55k guaranteed $10 rebuy. Not much read on villian, seems solid but we haven't played any pots together.

PokerStars Game #4057680741: Tournament #20002287, Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (600/1200) - 2006/02/22 - 01:09:02 (ET)
Table '20002287 157' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Lambchop (57579 in chips)
Seat 2: work2do (50138 in chips)
Seat 3: SirWatts (50795 in chips)
Seat 4: niz0224 (11210 in chips)
Seat 5: drwicks (23010 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 6: rebellious1 (45011 in chips)
Seat 8: Darkman2000 (43645 in chips)
Seat 9: nazareneoh (52691 in chips)
Lambchop: posts the ante 75
work2do: posts the ante 75
SirWatts: posts the ante 75
niz0224: posts the ante 75
drwicks: posts the ante 75
rebellious1: posts the ante 75
Darkman2000: posts the ante 75
nazareneoh: posts the ante 75
drwicks: posts small blind 600
rebellious1: posts big blind 1200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SirWatts [Qs As]
Darkman2000: folds
nazareneoh: folds
Lambchop: folds
work2do: raises 2400 to 3600
SirWatts: calls 3600
niz0224: folds
drwicks: folds
rebellious1: folds
*** FLOP *** [8s 4d Qd]
work2do: bets 4800
SirWatts: ?

stpboy

Make it 11, 500 and watch him fold...

stp

The Prophet 22

stpboy wrote:

Make it 11, 500 and watch him fold...

stp

That is too small better make it 16500 enough to give him room to get out, enough for you to get out if he goes all in.

Prophet 22

SirWatts

My only problem with this is most things I beat probably just fold and hands I'm ahead of just push over the top of me.  Maybe i'm totally confused but calling seems like a better option here to me, it's unlikely he has many outs if i'm ahead.  Of coursenow i have to play poker on later streets.

stpboy

SirWatts wrote:

My only problem with this is most things I beat probably just fold and hands I'm ahead of just push over the top of me.  Maybe i'm totally confused but calling seems like a better option here to me, it's unlikely he has many outs if i'm ahead.  Of coursenow i have to play poker on later streets.

He could have a total of two hands that are ahead of you (not looking under the bed of course)....
Do you want him to call? I'd assume so but not with the expense of having you check...raise a bit over the minimum and get some information. Proceed with caution after that.

stp

ScoobyD

My only problem with this is most things I beat probably just fold and hands I'm ahead of just push over the top of me.

Agreed. Let's say for argument's sake you call and he then makes a big bet on the turn. What's your play then? I think calling might send the message to him that a hand like KQ, JJ, TT which you beat is probably good and that maybe you're drawing. Guess it depends on your read and how aggressive the guy is post flop.

wader

I like the smooth call. If he is a solid player, chances are he's not going to take another crack at it on the turn. If he does lead out on the turn and you feel that you are beat you can lay it down. If he checks the turn you can check with him to induce a bluff on river or bet it on the turn and take it down. I prefer to check behind him on the turn so that I don't give him the option of check/raising me and then I probbably have to lay it down.

Wader

SirWatts

wader wrote:

I like the smooth call. If he is a solid player, chances are he's not going to take another crack at it on the turn. If he does lead out on the turn and you feel that you are beat you can lay it down. If he checks the turn you can check with him to induce a bluff on river or bet it on the turn and take it down. I prefer to check behind him on the turn so that I don't give him the option of check/raising me and then I probbably have to lay it down.

Right this was my plan check behind the turn if a blank comes and extract some extra value on the end. However things didn't work out quite as planned:

PokerStars Game #4057680741: Tournament #20002287, Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (600/1200) - 2006/02/22 - 01:09:02 (ET)
Table '20002287 157' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Lambchop (57579 in chips)
Seat 2: work2do (50138 in chips)
Seat 3: SirWatts (50795 in chips)
Seat 4: niz0224 (11210 in chips)
Seat 5: drwicks (23010 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 6: rebellious1 (45011 in chips)
Seat 8: Darkman2000 (43645 in chips)
Seat 9: nazareneoh (52691 in chips)
Lambchop: posts the ante 75
work2do: posts the ante 75
SirWatts: posts the ante 75
niz0224: posts the ante 75
drwicks: posts the ante 75
rebellious1: posts the ante 75
Darkman2000: posts the ante 75
nazareneoh: posts the ante 75
drwicks: posts small blind 600
rebellious1: posts big blind 1200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SirWatts [Qs As]
Darkman2000: folds
nazareneoh: folds
Lambchop: folds
work2do: raises 2400 to 3600
SirWatts: calls 3600
niz0224: folds
drwicks: folds
vadgebadger is connected
rebellious1 said, "hmmm 2-7 os"
rebellious1: folds
*** FLOP *** [8s 4d Qd]
work2do: bets 4800
SirWatts: calls 4800
*** TURN *** [8s 4d Qd]
work2do: bets 8400
SirWatts: ?

The Prophet 22

you are beat he has the flush. If if he doesn't and goes all in or makes a bet for you to call you lose on the river when he goes all in.

Prophet 22

wader

Man thats a tough one. I think he has AK AQ or KQ with a flush draw on the turn. Im leaning towards KQ with the K hearts. I call.

RAM_Eh

I think this is one tough laydown. Not really sure I could do it.

The raise PF is standard 3 times. The turn bet seams tentative. I call too.

SirWatts

I think I could have folded the turn, but the third diamond made some bluffing/semi-bluffing possibilities so I figured I should call, planning to give up to a big river bet.

PokerStars Game #4057680741: Tournament #20002287, Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (600/1200) - 2006/02/22 - 01:09:02 (ET)
Table '20002287 157' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Lambchop (57579 in chips)
Seat 2: work2do (50138 in chips)
Seat 3: SirWatts (50795 in chips)
Seat 4: niz0224 (11210 in chips)
Seat 5: drwicks (23010 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 6: rebellious1 (45011 in chips)
Seat 8: Darkman2000 (43645 in chips)
Seat 9: nazareneoh (52691 in chips)
drwicks: posts small blind 600
rebellious1: posts big blind 1200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SirWatts [Qs As]
Darkman2000: folds
nazareneoh: folds
Lambchop: folds
work2do: raises 2400 to 3600
SirWatts: calls 3600
niz0224: folds
drwicks: folds
rebellious1: folds
*** FLOP *** [8s 4d Qd]
work2do: bets 4800
SirWatts: calls 4800
*** TURN *** [8s 4d Qd]
work2do: bets 8400
SirWatts: calls 8400
*** RIVER *** [8s 4d Qd Td] [4c]
work2do: bets 12000
SirWatts: ?

Getting 4:1 on the call but he's shown nothing but strength. What now?

AcidJoe

You've gone this far so I think you have to call. I think that reraising his flop bet would have been far more effective. Now your at the river with 3 to a flush and a pair on board. I think your beat, however getting 4-1 makes it a call. Since you've shown no strength maybe he thinks his jj or tt is good, by not showing anything to your opponent you have no clue where you are.

The Prophet 22

[quote [8s 4d Qd Td] [4c]
work2do: bets 12000
SirWatts: ?

Getting 4:1 on the call but he's shown nothing but strength.  What now?

He is begging for you to go over the top.

Prophet 22

wader

OK......lets work this out
1) if he had a flush i feel that he would be betting more on river
2) the flop and turn bet are in line if he flopped a set but the river is out of line....he should bet more here hoping that u have the flush
3) if he had an over pair i think he would have bet more on the flop
4) so i think im stickin with my first post i think he has KQ or AQ.....but be carefull of the AA(with A diamonds) or KK(with K diamonds).

To me it looks like one of those players that when he starts betting he keeps betting.
I call by the way.
You better not tell me you folded because i want to know the outcome

SirWatts

Lol my original plan was to post it like i folded and see if that affeted how people think. I paid it off and he showed AA, MHING. I feel like the turn was probably the only time I could have folded. Him beting aggresively what should be a scare card for him means he either has nothing or he has a strong hand. I kept thinking maybe he has KQ or maybe he's one of those guys that likes betting but given that he seemed solid I'm not sure either of those hope were realistic. This would probably be easier to play live when I have a read or at least when I'm not on autopilot 4-tabling like the online poker donkey I am.