Should I have layed this down?

westside8westside8
in Brags, Beats & Variance
PokerStars Game #4043955197: Tournament #20002195, Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2006/02/20 - 21:33:31 (ET)
Table '20002195 176' Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: ThePat51 (6155 in chips)
Seat 2: wesleyw (7970 in chips)
Seat 3: LD_Dog (9100 in chips)
Seat 4: JohhnyP (7025 in chips)
Seat 5: Emrald (11185 in chips)
Seat 6: Saburgrump (7425 in chips)
Seat 7: Schamber (10139 in chips)
Seat 8: $$J$G$$5545 (13346 in chips)
Seat 9: sody21 (55205 in chips)
$$J$G$$5545: posts small blind 75
sody21: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to wesleyw [Ad As]
ThePat51: folds
wesleyw: raises 300 to 450
LD_Dog: folds
JohhnyP: folds
Emrald: folds
Saburgrump: calls 450
Schamber: folds
$$J$G$$5545: folds
sody21: folds
*** FLOP *** [2c 6c Jc]
wesleyw: bets 750
Saburgrump: raises 6225 to 6975 and is all-in


This player has made his share of questionable plays, and I could almost say I'm 100% sure he does not have the flush. Even if it was on a flush draw, is this too much to risk with the deep stacks and at this stage of the tournament?

Comments

  • SirWattsSirWatts
    no dude
  • ErculesErcules
    Personally, I call. I'd say he has Q's or K's and is trying to prevent you from drawing to the flush.
  • ScottyZScottyZ
    In a $3+R, I'm with SirWatts. Except I'd change dude to bro.

    ScottyZ
  • beanie42beanie42
    I'd call (then cry).
  • Hork42Hork42
    Ercules wrote:
    Personally, I call. I figure he has Q's or K's and is trying to prevent you from drawing to the flush.

    You don't think KK or QQ re-raises preflop?

    I think you can safely fold here without the :ac. Yes, his raise there is suspicious, but really... worth it to find that he has a ragged two pair?

    and I just read the replies since I started typing... I don't care what SirWatts and ScottyZ say. I still fold this! :)
    I probably lose more tournaments than they do too, but I still don't care!
  • Hork42Hork42
    Wait. Is this during the rebuy period?
  • westside8westside8
    Hork42 wrote:
    Wait. Is this during the rebuy period?

    Nope. Otherwise I wouldn't even be asking :D
  • ScottyZScottyZ
    Actually, I'm more with Beanie on this one. I'd call here, but not like it.

    I am seeing too many bizzare plays at my own $3+R table right now to give the opponent credit for anything, especially after the comment in the OP that he has been playing a little weird.

    I'd make the call and expect to be shown a 3 and a Cracker Jack box most of the time. Unfortunately, it will often be the Cracker Jack box of clubs.

    ScottyZ
  • SirWattsSirWatts
    i'd say this is a pair and a draw at best, some times a pair no draw, and sometimes a draw no pair. Very rarely anything better given your read.
  • ErculesErcules
    Hork42 wrote:
    Ercules wrote:
    Personally, I call. I figure he has Q's or K's and is trying to prevent you from drawing to the flush.

    You don't think KK or QQ re-raises preflop?

    No, to me the all-in on the flop screams overpair. My hunch says he was slowplaying a big pair and paniced when the flush shows.


    However as I'm typing this and thinking more about it I'm leaning toward trips, either way, I call.
  • ChugsChugs
    Call, while simultaniously registering in another tourney.
  • MetroMetro
    The call is so easy if one of your aces is a club - but unfortunately it is not :(

    I would use the info you have on the player - he could very well be banking on the fact that you dont have the flush.
  • stpboystpboy
    He has KcJh, that's what he has. I call and say nice hand when my AA holds up, to bad you folded though....

    stp
  • PinheadPinhead
    This may be the first incorrect read I've seen you make Shannon,
    but I'm not going to ruin the surprise since I was watching the hand take place
  • stpboystpboy
    Pinhead wrote:
    This may be the first incorrect read I've seen you make Shannon,
    but I'm not going to ruin the surprise since I was watching the hand take place

    Ohhh I've been known to be wrong! Not live though ;)

    stp
  • JohnnieHJohnnieH
    You've got him covered. Gotta call. :'(

    So, what happed?

    JohnnieH
  • specialKspecialK
    wes i thought you were a CALLing station.
  • Hork42Hork42
    stpboy wrote:
    He has KcJh, that's what he has.  I call and say nice hand when my AA holds up, to bad you folded though....

    stp

    Let's say he does have this hand. You're a coin flip to win this hand. Do you still call here?
  • stpboystpboy
    I think that stupid bit of pride that I'm trying to get rid of makes me call "try to make me lay down with an under pair and top draw...I'll show you and call"

    nice yplc, made me laugh when I saw that....

    stp
  • westside8westside8
    stpboy wrote:
    He has KcJh, that's what he has. I call and say nice hand when my AA holds up, to bad you folded though....

    stp

    He had A4 (or one of the rags) with A of clubs (just like I thought). Club came on the turn right away.
  • Dave ScharfDave Scharf
    I call without too much deliberation. Easy call.

    And, as it turns out you made the right call.
    Let's say he does have this hand. You're a coin flip to win this hand. Do you still call here?

    If you are 50/50 to win the hand you should call. There is 1000 in dead money in the pot.

    You must take coin flips when you are getting the odds to do so.
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