Seneca Casino... General Casino Poker Play Question(s)
I have recently started playing in Casinos.
I have been playing No Limit, $1-2. I've tried 5-5(fallsview) but I am not comfortable with the buyin (100-500) as my bankroll won't be able to stand the swings.
I had a couple good sessions the first three times I visited Seneca. I played well, IMO, and other than 2 large pots (JJ(ME) vs AA, both flopped sets) and AK(ME) vs 44 flop K 4 2 suited, I've won on these three sessions.
Then comes session 4, this was two weeks ago.
I consider myself a tight player, and am fairly aggressive. I'm trying to figure out how I shouldve played some of these hands, and also how to attack/play loose aggressive players.
First hand.
This one player at our table, Ill call him RAMBO for his Kamikaze style, would raise with any two cards. Button, Middle position, UTG didn't matter.
I had seen him put a couple bad beats on players around me and seen the hands he showed down. This guy played any two cards, so combined with his raising, RAMBO, had a wide spectrum of hands he would play.
Hand #1 in question:
1-2NL
RAMBO $150, UTG raises to $10.
HERO $75( :10c :10d) UTG +2 re raises to $20 (too little?. basically I'm trying to make this a heads up pot, but if another player goes over the top of me I can release the hand, they are only pocket tens.)
fold to RAMBO.
RAMBO CALLS $10
Pot = 43, 39 after Rake)
FLOP :4c :5s :8c
RAMBO CHECKS
HERO BETS $30(Theres a flush draw, and I have the over pair, make him pay to draw)
RAMBO BETS ALL IN $55 total(he has me covered)
HERO CALLS ALL IN $25
Turn :6d
River :9h
RAMBO Shows ( :4s :5c) 2 Pair
Rambo collects $146 after rake
*** Now I've read the best way to play a loose aggressive player is to isolate him with hands that dont need improvement, AK- Pocket pair. That flop was perfect for me, I thought when he pushed he was on a draw. I was stunned to see I lost to 2 pair. It actually took me a minute to figure I had lost. I know my Tens weren't invincible. They are JUST a pair. But against a loose player was this the right play, I know he got lucky, but should I have played it this way?
Hand 2 in question.
Different player this time, well sort of. Different guy, same style of player, but I didn't know it at the time. He had moved seats while I was at dinner (Buffet at Seneca is great). After this hand and seeing how he played I will call him Mr. Any 2 Will Do.
Before dinner I played one hand with him, no raise preflop, I was in the SB, he was BB. He re raised me on the turn, I folded top pair(weak kicker) and he claimed to have 2 pair(BB special). So I knew he was aggressive. But no read on his hand selection. I always give players credit for being a good players until I can see how they play, Good until proven otherwise!
MR.ANY2WILLDO $250, UTG raises to $7.
UTG+1 Calls $7
HERO $100Calls $7 ( :jd :jc ) I give him credit for a decent hand here and smoothe call, I put him on AK AQ, as he had played decently against me and in the FEW pots he played while at the table.
LP Calls $7
SB Folds
BB Folds
Pot $31, $27 after rake.
Flop :4d :2c :6h
MR.ANY2WILLDO CHECKS
UTG +1 CHECKS
HERO BETS $15
LP FOLDS
MR.ANY2WILLDO Raises to $35
UTG+1 FOLDS
HERO CALLS $20 (I am thinking reraise here, as Ive put him on over cards, and am sticking to my read, I think hes trying to slow me down, if another small cards hits on the turn he might get the river for free, so I call and if another small card comes I hope he tries to bluff at it.)
Turn :9c
MR.ANY2WILLDO Bets $40
Hero Calls $40
River :jh
MR.ANY2WILLDO Bets $18(Actual $20 bet puts me all in)
HERO Calls $18
MR.ANY2WILLDO shows :3d :5s straight 2 to 6
HERO Pair of Jacks.
MR.ANY2WILLDO wins $196 after rake
**** Ok, so my read was dead wrong. I gave him too much credit preflop, and didn't re raise. I shouldve put him on a better flopped hand than "OVER CARDS" and gotten away from this. I thought he was a solid player, UTG raise and all.
As the night progressed MR.ANY2WILLDO showed his true colors, similar to the pot against me. He raised UTG $15 with :6c :4d, only to be re raised to $60 by another player.
MR.ANY2WILLDO calls the $45 more and flops a straight, All in Player had a large over pair.
He made many other large calls preflop, and raised preflop with many different CRAP hands.
Had I known he played this way, I would've re raised preflop. But by the way he played future hands, he clearly would've called any re raise I made, still flopping the straight. My play flop, turn and river were very weak.
How do I play these aggressive LOOOOOOOSE players better. I feel in Hand one I played it well, and he got lucky. I feel in Hand 2 I misplayed it from the beginning, from the read preflop to the non re raise, to the call on the flop check raise and the turn and river calls.
This post is an admission of my poor play, to get honest feedback, as well as advice how play these LAG better. I dint mind the variance, I just to make sure I am making the right play even if it costs me pots where the LAG gets lucky, or even I walk into a bigger hand.
I have been playing No Limit, $1-2. I've tried 5-5(fallsview) but I am not comfortable with the buyin (100-500) as my bankroll won't be able to stand the swings.
I had a couple good sessions the first three times I visited Seneca. I played well, IMO, and other than 2 large pots (JJ(ME) vs AA, both flopped sets) and AK(ME) vs 44 flop K 4 2 suited, I've won on these three sessions.
Then comes session 4, this was two weeks ago.
I consider myself a tight player, and am fairly aggressive. I'm trying to figure out how I shouldve played some of these hands, and also how to attack/play loose aggressive players.
First hand.
This one player at our table, Ill call him RAMBO for his Kamikaze style, would raise with any two cards. Button, Middle position, UTG didn't matter.
I had seen him put a couple bad beats on players around me and seen the hands he showed down. This guy played any two cards, so combined with his raising, RAMBO, had a wide spectrum of hands he would play.
Hand #1 in question:
1-2NL
RAMBO $150, UTG raises to $10.
HERO $75( :10c :10d) UTG +2 re raises to $20 (too little?. basically I'm trying to make this a heads up pot, but if another player goes over the top of me I can release the hand, they are only pocket tens.)
fold to RAMBO.
RAMBO CALLS $10
Pot = 43, 39 after Rake)
FLOP :4c :5s :8c
RAMBO CHECKS
HERO BETS $30(Theres a flush draw, and I have the over pair, make him pay to draw)
RAMBO BETS ALL IN $55 total(he has me covered)
HERO CALLS ALL IN $25
Turn :6d
River :9h
RAMBO Shows ( :4s :5c) 2 Pair
Rambo collects $146 after rake
*** Now I've read the best way to play a loose aggressive player is to isolate him with hands that dont need improvement, AK- Pocket pair. That flop was perfect for me, I thought when he pushed he was on a draw. I was stunned to see I lost to 2 pair. It actually took me a minute to figure I had lost. I know my Tens weren't invincible. They are JUST a pair. But against a loose player was this the right play, I know he got lucky, but should I have played it this way?
Hand 2 in question.
Different player this time, well sort of. Different guy, same style of player, but I didn't know it at the time. He had moved seats while I was at dinner (Buffet at Seneca is great). After this hand and seeing how he played I will call him Mr. Any 2 Will Do.
Before dinner I played one hand with him, no raise preflop, I was in the SB, he was BB. He re raised me on the turn, I folded top pair(weak kicker) and he claimed to have 2 pair(BB special). So I knew he was aggressive. But no read on his hand selection. I always give players credit for being a good players until I can see how they play, Good until proven otherwise!
MR.ANY2WILLDO $250, UTG raises to $7.
UTG+1 Calls $7
HERO $100Calls $7 ( :jd :jc ) I give him credit for a decent hand here and smoothe call, I put him on AK AQ, as he had played decently against me and in the FEW pots he played while at the table.
LP Calls $7
SB Folds
BB Folds
Pot $31, $27 after rake.
Flop :4d :2c :6h
MR.ANY2WILLDO CHECKS
UTG +1 CHECKS
HERO BETS $15
LP FOLDS
MR.ANY2WILLDO Raises to $35
UTG+1 FOLDS
HERO CALLS $20 (I am thinking reraise here, as Ive put him on over cards, and am sticking to my read, I think hes trying to slow me down, if another small cards hits on the turn he might get the river for free, so I call and if another small card comes I hope he tries to bluff at it.)
Turn :9c
MR.ANY2WILLDO Bets $40
Hero Calls $40
River :jh
MR.ANY2WILLDO Bets $18(Actual $20 bet puts me all in)
HERO Calls $18
MR.ANY2WILLDO shows :3d :5s straight 2 to 6
HERO Pair of Jacks.
MR.ANY2WILLDO wins $196 after rake
**** Ok, so my read was dead wrong. I gave him too much credit preflop, and didn't re raise. I shouldve put him on a better flopped hand than "OVER CARDS" and gotten away from this. I thought he was a solid player, UTG raise and all.
As the night progressed MR.ANY2WILLDO showed his true colors, similar to the pot against me. He raised UTG $15 with :6c :4d, only to be re raised to $60 by another player.
MR.ANY2WILLDO calls the $45 more and flops a straight, All in Player had a large over pair.
He made many other large calls preflop, and raised preflop with many different CRAP hands.
Had I known he played this way, I would've re raised preflop. But by the way he played future hands, he clearly would've called any re raise I made, still flopping the straight. My play flop, turn and river were very weak.
How do I play these aggressive LOOOOOOOSE players better. I feel in Hand one I played it well, and he got lucky. I feel in Hand 2 I misplayed it from the beginning, from the read preflop to the non re raise, to the call on the flop check raise and the turn and river calls.
This post is an admission of my poor play, to get honest feedback, as well as advice how play these LAG better. I dint mind the variance, I just to make sure I am making the right play even if it costs me pots where the LAG gets lucky, or even I walk into a bigger hand.
Comments
I would have folded to myself rather than re-raising myself.
Is this a new rule allowance at Seneca? "I bet $500." "Okay, I call $20 of that...but I still have money left for the river bet!"
BTW...I love being called RAMBO.
As painful as it was to lose to your suckout, watching you piss off your whole stack was worth it.
Within an hour RAMBO easily lost his whole stack, which after repeated suckouts was pretty big.
KUTGW
There are tons of guys who play no limit like limit games - sometimes they are going to get lucky.
Of course you have to protect your hand (esp. pre-flop), and if you do and someone stupidly calls and then hits a miracle flop - what can you do? Lay the hand down in the case that he is an idiot that got lucky? I can't do that, unless I have a very strong feeling about it. I don't think you made any bad calls here, sure you could have raised more pre-flop, but sometimes if you want to double-up, you need to entice bad calls from people. With this comes risk. A few times, your wired pairs will get cracked by raggedy flops.
Playing NL you are going to take a few hands on the chin, so don't sweat it. There's another hand starting in 15 seconds. Keep playing your game and make it back later.Â
I agree 100% I wasnt aggressive enough preflop in both situations. Both hands couldve ended preflop with a sizeable reraise.
Very bad play. you lose the hand right here...
You charge him $10 to come into a $33 pot?
His chance of winning is probably only about.. 20 percent ... say about $7 preflop equity.
But the implied odds of your $50 behind can make up the $3....
You're forcing him to play correctly and adding to your variance by doing so....
After he bets you have *no idea* what his hand is.
You haven't defined your hand.
So you have to guess when he pushes all in on you...
Again you lose the hand right here...
Same problem but this time you give him infinite odds to suck out on you.
So suck out he does.
And you have only your terrible play to blame.
I know this comes across as harsh but you've got to stop letting people in for cheap/free.
These are *not* bad beats. These are huge errors.
If you give them a free/cheap look at the flop then you're the fish not them.
You're trying to add slowplay deception to your game to fool who?? Clueless fish who don't pay attention to your bets.
The first hand, where I just double his original bet of $10, this raise was meant to isolate him. I knew he was a loose player and wanted the hand heads up. Also, I only had pocket 10's, so my thinking was that I didnt want to commit $30 to a raise, as there were a couple players behind me and possibly a bigger hand.
I shouldve raised larger, but he wouldve called regardless. I understand I need to make players pay to see flops, or the turn river, etc. A $10 reraise was not going to stop him from seeing that flop. The goal is to bet an amount that doesnt give the other player(s) the correct odds to call.
The second hand I agree also, I should clarify the situation surrounding the hand.
I had just returned from dinner, the reason I went to dinner was because of misplays and some bad beats. I was frustrated, so I took a break to get some food and clear my head.
When I returned, this was the very first hand I had played. The player Mr. Any2Willdo had played solidly before dinner, and changed seats during my break. So I put him on a good hand, bad mistake. I also was not in the right frame of mind obviously, I think I was on reverse tilt. I call it that because, tilt is a term for playing badly, and in my case I consider it tilting when I overplay hands and becme too aggressive. Reverse tilt is possibly worse, I become too passive and let too many hands into pots, that can cost me my whole stack.
There was no intention in either hand to slowplay. Never crossed my mind. As stated above. I min raised to isolate in hand 1, and was reverse tilting on my first hand back from dinner on Hand 2.
I agree Hand 2 isnt a bad beat, because I played my self into losing that hand, there were way too many hands that could beat me there.
But, Hand 1. Even had I raised $20 more to a total of $30, he was calling. No question. He also checked it to me, I didnt bet out, I had position and it was a dream flop for me, all low cards. I had raised preflop, got the flop I wanted, was checked to and bet out. He raised all in, which was less than the original bet. I wasnt in a position to fold at that point.
I appreciate your feedback, I posted it for honest responses. I have criticized my own play far worse than anyone else could, but I take every bit of critcism and feedback and will use it to improve my play.
Thanks,
Tim
Some people think you should just play passively since you will be totally dominated by the big pairs.
I strongly disagree.
When facing a raise I like to reraise about 3 times their raise. In both cases here I'd reraise about 30 bucks.
You want to make the garbage hands pay.
People calling with 35o or 56o are your natural prey... their calling is making you money over the long term.
When it comes all low cards and you've re-raised 3x their opening raise then you can raise the flop.
from calling. You have $75, raising to $30 represents 40% of your chips (risky if someone
behind has JJ-AA). After betting the $30, it's hard to fold your last $25 (2/3 of your chips
already in), especially if you put him on a flush draw. He seems like the type who'd make
that all-in w/ a draw or just a pr.
2nd hand, I would've reraised to $28 (another $21). You still have $72 if someone goes over
the top. If he has AQ/AJ, he shouldn't call & the raise gets rid of other hands behind you
(unless they have QQ-AA, AK). Flat call & you're playing JJ 4-handed (not good).
Your post-flop bet was weak. He might've reraised you w/ just AQ there (if he thought you
were weak), & flat-calling his reraise gives him 6 outs to draw out (if he had AQ).
I tend to give an UTG raise credit but you should reraise for info. On a low-med flop, you
still don't know if your JJ is good by flat calling preflop. If he goes over the top
preflop, you can fold JJ w/ $72 left. If he flat calls, proceed cautiously.
If he's calling any reraise, then you were going to lose regardless. But you played JJ too
passive preflop & even on the flop.