Short stacked - Would you push all in?

21 person freezeout, $60 buy in, $5000 in chips.

5 players left. Blinds are $800/1600. I am UTG + 1 and way shortstacked at $2600. I pick up KQos. UTG folds. Now, this is definitely not the place I would like to push, but knowing how card dead I was (a plethora of 83's, 52's... you get the point), as well as the upcoming blinds, I push.

What is the right play here. Wait till the blinds hit and burn off $2400 leaving me with $200 (assuming that BB is raised, which I can pretty much guarantee).

Thoughts?

Comments

  • Dude, push any two in that spot.
  • Yeah.... I figured. Just depressed that the caller pulled up pocket K's. I'm lucky I made it as far as I did. Best hand all day was 10's (and that was almost 3 hours in). I guess I moved at the right times.
  • Me personally I would take an Ace over two face cards, but being that blinds are coming up real fast and you don't have enough chips left to make many moves I think I a push is in order and hope that the BB feels you has to call you with his garbage cards or every one folds the Blinds to you.

    The real question is why didn't you push with the 52?
  • You are so shortstacked that you don't have a choice but to push here. Make the most of your stack and double up while you still have chips.

    KQ is a monster in a 5-handed game. Even deep-stacked, I'd think my hand is strongest and make a raise here.
  • You have to push at this point. (...but really should have pushed a rotation or two earlier with any 2 to try to get yourself some fold equity.)

    With your M at 1 you're on Death's door, barely on life support and will get called with whatever you do. Close your eyes and hope for the best.
  • Definately push. You have some good cards to double up with as you're not likely to push many people out of that pot.
  • Easy push, but as Zithal said, I would've definitely pushed a rotation or two earlier when your M is around 3 and could possibly still get everyone to fold if you're first in.
  • Easy push. If you wait until the BB you're olnly going to probably get called by the small blind and if you by chance win, you're getting less chips. The odds of getting a better hand than KQ in the next two deals is very slim anyway.
  • westside8 wrote:
    Easy push, but as Zithal said, I would've definitely pushed a rotation or two earlier when your M is around 3 and could possibly still get everyone to fold if you're first in.

    Well... I guess more info is needed. I was in decent shape the previous rotation. I picked up Q9os in the BB. 4 players to the flop for free. Flop KQ9 rainbow. I check, UTG 2 and MP check, LP bets - I raise. All fold back to LP who calls. Turn is a blank I check raise again to get a call. I'm feeling a little strange at this point, but figure he hit his K. River is the same s**t - a blank. I check, he bets, I call. He flips K9. So, there you have it, me pushing (80% of my stack) the previous hand.

    I was feeling pretty good about pushing with KQ, but would have preferred to see it for less than my entire stack.
  • FOLD IT!! Wait for 52o. Seems to work against me, anyway :rage:

    Seriously, you have no choice, just bad luck to go up against cowboys when you did.
  • STR82ACE wrote:
    FOLD IT!!  Wait for 52o.  Seems to work against me, anyway :rage:

    Seriously, you have no choice, just bad luck to go up against cowboys when you did.

    Yeah, just think I was looking for validation here. Thanks.
  • derksen wrote:
    westside8 wrote:
    Easy push, but as Zithal said, I would've definitely pushed a rotation or two earlier when your M is around 3 and could possibly still get everyone to fold if you're first in.

    Well... I guess more info is needed. I was in decent shape the previous rotation. I picked up Q9os in the BB. 4 players to the flop for free. Flop KQ9 rainbow. I check, UTG 2 and MP check, LP bets - I raise. All fold back to LP who calls. Turn is a blank I check raise again to get a call. I'm feeling a little strange at this point, but figure he hit his K. River is the same s**t - a blank. I check, he bets, I call. He flips K9. So, there you have it, me pushing (80% of my stack) the previous hand.

    I was feeling pretty good about pushing with KQ, but would have preferred to see it for less than my entire stack.

    You have no choice but to push with KQ, your hope is everyone else folds and the BB putting in the extra 1K to make the call.. But I'm curious about the hand which brought you down this low. If you check-raised the flop with bottom two, I don't understand the check on the turn. With bottom two, I would've check-raised all-in on the flop if your stack was low to begin with.
  • Zithal wrote:
    (...but really should have pushed a rotation or two earlier with any 2 to try to get yourself some <b>fold equity</b>.)

    What exactly is fold equity?
  • ElElliott wrote:

    What exactly is fold equity?

    The extra value your bet has given the chance that your opponent may fold.
  • westside8 wrote:
    derksen wrote:
    westside8 wrote:
    Easy push, but as Zithal said, I would've definitely pushed a rotation or two earlier when your M is around 3 and could possibly still get everyone to fold if you're first in.

    Well... I guess more info is needed. I was in decent shape the previous rotation. I picked up Q9os in the BB. 4 players to the flop for free. Flop KQ9 rainbow. I check, UTG 2 and MP check, LP bets - I raise. All fold back to LP who calls. Turn is a blank I check raise again to get a call. I'm feeling a little strange at this point, but figure he hit his K. River is the same s**t - a blank. I check, he bets, I call. He flips K9. So, there you have it, me pushing (80% of my stack) the previous hand.

    I was feeling pretty good about pushing with KQ, but would have preferred to see it for less than my entire stack.

    You have no choice but to push with KQ, your hope is everyone else folds and the BB putting in the extra 1K to make the call..  But I'm curious about the hand which brought you down this low.  If you check-raised the flop with bottom two, I don't understand the check on the turn.  With bottom two, I would've check-raised all-in on the flop if your stack was low to begin with.

    The reason for the check on the turn was brought on by the call to my substantial check raise. He made a minimum bet on the flop, and I raised the size of the pot - I didn't go all in because I wanted a caller. Considering he called, I had to put him on something. Unfortunately, I put him on top pair, not top 2 pair. As I mentioned, after the check raise on the turn that received a call, I got concerned about the higher 2 pair, or trips on the flop, hence the check call on the river.
  • and I raised the size of the pot - I didn't go all in because I wanted a caller.

    Not that the outcome would have changed had you pushed, but bottom 2 on a co-ordinated board like that is very dangerous. I don't know if I'd have wanted a caller. If he has something like KT or KJ he has a lot of outs...
  • ScoobyD wrote:
    and I raised the size of the pot - I didn't go all in because I wanted a caller.

    Not that the outcome would have changed had you pushed, but bottom 2 on a co-ordinated board like that is very dangerous.  I don't know if I'd have wanted a caller.  If he has something like KT or KJ he has a lot of outs...

    Exactly as I figured. I put him on Kx, the x being A, Q, J, 10 as he entered the pot with a medium low sized stack and the blinds where getting expensive.

    So, putting him on AK, KQ, KJ, KT, after the flop he has about a 12% chance to hit his second pair. I was willing to take that chance to fatten the wallet at that point. Gotta gamble sometimes, and at 12% chance is a gamble I'm willing to take with the stack I had. Add a few percent for the odds of hitting trips as well.
  • I dont think there is ever a need to push.

    I think, if you just smooth called. Saw an ACE on the board, than you push. This will give you the edge and making him think twice before mucking those pocket K winners.

    On his position, hes either raising with high pockets, or A something. So if it comes low, push.. just to chance. If it flops an ACE, push too. That why, pocket pairs like QQ or KK will get out most likely. But preflop, they will call you down no problem.

    Bottom line is, when you push ur commiting... you are playing bingo with all your chips and hope that it hits when there is a "better" odds of your opponent not hitting the flop and just folding if you push all in on the flop.
  • Jae wrote:
    I dont think there is ever a need to push.

    I think, if you just smooth called. Saw an ACE on the board, than you push. This will give you the edge and making him think twice before mucking those pocket K winners.

    On his position, hes either raising with high pockets, or A something. So if it comes low, push.. just to chance. If it flops an ACE, push too. That why, pocket pairs like QQ or KK will get out most likely. But preflop, they will call you down no problem.

    Bottom line is, when you push ur commiting... you are playing bingo with all your chips and hope that it hits when there is a "better" odds of your opponent not hitting the flop and just folding if you push all in on the flop.

    If you are talking about the KQo hand, then he had no choice. BB was coming around to him in 2 hands, and at this point the BB will be calling him regardless of his hand. KQ will probably be the best hand he sees in the next two hands. With him smooth calling, it leaves him with 1000 chips, not only will he be called for sure, and he runs a risk of letting more limpers in who might potentially outflop him. By putting 1600 of his 2600, he has already committed himself to the pot.
  • Sitting 5 hande KQ is a solid hand, and as short stack with the possibility of being blinded out you have to play what you have not what you might have. You did the right thing.

    Cheers!
  • Jae wrote:
    I dont think there is ever a need to push.

    I think, if you just smooth called.  Saw an ACE on the board, than you push.  This will give you the edge and making him think twice before mucking those pocket K winners.

    On his position, hes either raising with high pockets, or A something.  So if it comes low, push.. just to chance.  If it flops an ACE, push too.  That why, pocket pairs like QQ or KK will get out most likely.  But preflop, they will call you down no problem.

    Bottom line is, when you push ur commiting... you are playing bingo with all your chips and hope that it hits when there is a "better" odds of your opponent not hitting the flop and just folding if you push all in on the flop.


    What?? You never push pre-flop, but you are willing to push all your chips in if an 'A' hits on the flop. And this isn't 'playing bingo'?? You are contracdicting yourself my friend. You say he is either on high pockets or A something. You put your opponent on KK or Ax and you are willing to 'play bingo' when an ace hits the board?? Stupid IMHO.

    Also, how can I not push as all the others suggested? Are they all wrong as well?
  • Also, how can I not push as all the others suggested?

    You can't. The post you're referring to is flawed in thinking that the raiser must either have a big pocket or 2 big cards. The size of the blinds relative to stack sizes is massive. At this point the cards don't really matter that much, but given that you actually get to look at your cards, KQ is a monster hand in this spot. The post you refer to is looking at the hand in reverse and saying push if you see an A on the flop since then he might lay down his kings (which is obviously information you don't have at that point).
  • ScoobyD wrote:
    Also, how can I not push as all the others suggested?

    You can't. The post you're referring to is flawed in thinking that the raiser must either have a big pocket or 2 big cards. The size of the blinds relative to stack sizes is massive. At this point the cards don't really matter that much, but given that you actually get to look at your cards, KQ is a monster hand in this spot. The post you refer to is looking at the hand in reverse and saying push if you see an A on the flop since then he might lay down his kings (which is obviously information you don't have at that point).

    Yes. I realize that. I was letting him know that he may want to re-evaluate his play prior to letting me know how I should play my cards.
  • Broken record: I would push for sure. With anything at that point.
  • Case closed!
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