Best thing since sliced bread
I've used this play 3 times (at three different tables) in the tournament I'm in right now, and it's worked every time.
Someone raises preflop from somewhere. You call with something. The pot is heads-up.
The flop misses you. You are first to act. You check, and call a bet that is approx. 2/3 the pot.
The turn misses you. You bet into your opponent, the exact same amount of his flop bet. He thinks and folds.
Now, why is this play the best thing since sliced bread? A few reasons.
It's better than a check-raise bluff on the flop. First of all, some players (they do exist) get all personally involved and all heated up when they get check-raised. Some players will instantly come back over the top of you as a result of this, and that would be bad. When you just call their flop bet, they get scared instead of pissed off, because flat calls are scary on a board with no draws. Then you follow that up with a bet on the turn, and they fold.
The other reason it's better than a check-raise bluff on the flop is because it's cheaper. If you check-raise the exact same amount of his bet on the flop, he feels priced in, committed to THAT STREET. So he calls. The only meaningful check-raise bluff you can put in will be a big one, and that gets expensive on the off-chance that your opponent has a real hand.
And finally, you can only make this play if the flop call + the identical turn bet does not put you into a different "zone", stack-wise. Like, don't do it if it will make your big stack average or your average stack small. And don't do it against shortstacks.
The exact same bet on the turn not only scares him, but it confuses him, too. It's too much for him to take: "You called a 700 bet on the flop and now you're leading out with 700 when the turn changes apparently nothing? WTF is going on here? You WANT me to call this turn bet? And what did you call the flop bet with? Go away now. I'm confused. I fold."
And that is why I feel that this move is both affordable and effective. Best thing since sliced bread. Anyone have any thoughts about the "calling a bet on the flop with nothing and leading out on the turn with the exact same bet" move?  It's cheap, and it works!
Someone raises preflop from somewhere. You call with something. The pot is heads-up.
The flop misses you. You are first to act. You check, and call a bet that is approx. 2/3 the pot.
The turn misses you. You bet into your opponent, the exact same amount of his flop bet. He thinks and folds.
Now, why is this play the best thing since sliced bread? A few reasons.
It's better than a check-raise bluff on the flop. First of all, some players (they do exist) get all personally involved and all heated up when they get check-raised. Some players will instantly come back over the top of you as a result of this, and that would be bad. When you just call their flop bet, they get scared instead of pissed off, because flat calls are scary on a board with no draws. Then you follow that up with a bet on the turn, and they fold.
The other reason it's better than a check-raise bluff on the flop is because it's cheaper. If you check-raise the exact same amount of his bet on the flop, he feels priced in, committed to THAT STREET. So he calls. The only meaningful check-raise bluff you can put in will be a big one, and that gets expensive on the off-chance that your opponent has a real hand.
And finally, you can only make this play if the flop call + the identical turn bet does not put you into a different "zone", stack-wise. Like, don't do it if it will make your big stack average or your average stack small. And don't do it against shortstacks.
The exact same bet on the turn not only scares him, but it confuses him, too. It's too much for him to take: "You called a 700 bet on the flop and now you're leading out with 700 when the turn changes apparently nothing? WTF is going on here? You WANT me to call this turn bet? And what did you call the flop bet with? Go away now. I'm confused. I fold."
And that is why I feel that this move is both affordable and effective. Best thing since sliced bread. Anyone have any thoughts about the "calling a bet on the flop with nothing and leading out on the turn with the exact same bet" move?  It's cheap, and it works!
Comments
The check raise bluff on the flop usually resulted in the type of behavior you mentioned where they become emotionally committed, though the check raise bluff can work on flops like 8 8 4 when I am in the BB without it being raised preflop.
The turn bet in limit is twice the flop bet but I think the base behavior is the same. You are creating the image of having a very powerful hand while you deftly avoid challanging the other player's "poker manhood" with the check raise.
but it's no Skippy
You basically are allowing your opponent to "Save Face".......Love It.
Completely agree with SirWatts on his limit take on this play. Frequently I'll see a donk turn bet as weakness and raise semi-strong to marginal hands with the intention of taking a free showdown. You'll see a lot of laggy types donk out the turn on a scare card and I will frequently come over the top (of course it becomes painful if they actually did trip up with bottom pair). Frequently these players will go for the turn CR though instead of the more obvious (aggressive) bet/3 bet line.
As for AA's take, there's so much thought behind the play it utterly blows my mind, but just a matter of finding the right opportunities to use it...
calls with KK. DoH!
Fortunately I was a big chip leader. But a couple more losses suddenly left me gasping for breath with a few hundred chips. Survived I don't know how many allins to chip back up and knock out fourth place. Battled 3 way for about 30 min. and finally won the sucker after a 1 hour and 45 min marathon.
See? I told you it works.
When you're out of position and you want to run a bluff, you really need to figure out the right bet size that will convince your opponent you hit the flop. The best way to do this is to let your opponent choose the bet size, by checking to them. You can run the bluff in a variety of ways -- but the initial bet by your opponent gives you the information you need to run a very believable bluff. I think any street will work -- but the turn can work the best because there's least amount of hope at that point. On the flop, he's got cards coming and the possibility of running a bluff against you. On the turn, he's only got one card coming and him running a bluff is very unlikely -- since you came this far. On the river, he need only call the one bet -- so, he can "hope" you're bluffing. Turn a very good spot. Others can work as well though -- depending on the nature of the opponent.
Cheers
Magi
Watch this ma, no hands
PokerStars Game #3900248020: Tournament #19224802, Hold'em No Limit - Level XI
(600/1200) - 2006/02/08 - 01:21:22 (ET)
Table '19224802 24' Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: egypt1177 (66852 in chips)
Seat 2: VegasLawyer (12660 in chips)
Seat 3: saraswati1 (32171 in chips)
Seat 4: heathbar43 (11935 in chips)
Seat 5: Calasabum (28437 in chips)
Seat 6: jafw (8869 in chips)
Seat 7: tklefty (24975 in chips) ................................This is me
Seat 8: asphaltace (8595 in chips)
Seat 9: micmac5 (18578 in chips)
egypt1177: posts the ante 75
VegasLawyer: posts the ante 75
saraswati1: posts the ante 75
heathbar43: posts the ante 75
Calasabum: posts the ante 75
jafw: posts the ante 75
tklefty: posts the ante 75
asphaltace: posts the ante 75
micmac5: posts the ante 75
jafw: posts small blind 600
tklefty: posts big blind 1200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to tklefty [Kh 3h]
asphaltace: folds
micmac5: folds
egypt1177: raises 1200 to 2400....raise from somewhere, just like all_aces said it would happen
VegasLawyer: folds
saraswati1: folds
heathbar43: folds
Calasabum: folds
jafw: folds
tklefty: calls 1200....follow the recipe
*** FLOP *** [6c Th 3c]
tklefty: checks
egypt1177: bets 3600....allow opponent to determine bet size (all aces with assist from magithighs)
tklefty: calls 3600
*** TURN *** [6c Th 3c] [6d]
tklefty: bets 3600..............lead out with exactly the same bet for maximum confusability
egypt1177: calls 3600....wait a second?!!!....wasn't he supposed to fold at this point? All_Aces promised
*** RIVER *** [6c Th 3c 6d] [2d]
tklefty: checks .......
egypt1177: bets 57177 and is all-in
tklefty: calls 15300 and is all-in...............I was just kidding, I was 98% sure he was drawing for clubs, and I know 100% he doesn't have the Tc or this particular guy would have raised the turn. The only MUTB hand he could possibly have is Ac6x...I'll takes my chances.
*** SHOW DOWN ***
egypt1177: shows [Jc 8c] (a pair of Sixes)
tklefty: shows [Kh 3h] (two pair, Sixes and Threes)
tklefty collected 51075 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 51075 | Rake 0
Board [6c Th 3c 6d 2d]
Seat 1: egypt1177 showed [Jc 8c] and lost with a pair of Sixes
Seat 2: VegasLawyer folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: saraswati1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: heathbar43 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Calasabum (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: jafw (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: tklefty (big blind) showed [Kh 3h] and won (51075) with two pair, Sixes
and Threes
Seat 8: asphaltace folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: micmac5 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
First reaction by most would be that my river call is a donk play, but I honestly felt I had a good read on this guy.
My read was so good in fact that later on I put all my chips in with 99 when he raised 5x the blind...all he had that time was KK..........oops, IGHN, or whatever the acronym is when you're already home.
And, shouldn't anything concerning Lucky Lou poker tips go in advertising or something?
I kid cause I love. I kid, cause I love.
In all seriousness, I've probably made that 'move' (or one like it) a bunch of times, but after doing it three times in one tournament it became very clear to me what I was doing, and why, and I felt compelled to write down my reasoning before I forgot about it.
SOS, I love that you gave it a try, and I'm glad it sorta kinda ish worked out for you!
Table '19196797 48' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: chefjeffkw (69163 in chips)
Seat 2: MDSGuy24 (59908 in chips)
Seat 3: klmz88 (24064 in chips)
Seat 4: abdoabdo (64490 in chips)
Seat 5: Stmp50 (64548 in chips)
Seat 6: juleslilbit (26400 in chips)
Seat 7: clyjoe (85224 in chips)
Seat 8: steveb1971 (63350 in chips)
Seat 9: squeezemall (67923 in chips)
chefjeffkw: posts the ante 150
MDSGuy24: posts the ante 150
klmz88: posts the ante 150
abdoabdo: posts the ante 150
Stmp50: posts the ante 150
juleslilbit: posts the ante 150
clyjoe: posts the ante 150
steveb1971: posts the ante 150
squeezemall: posts the ante 150
chefjeffkw: posts small blind 1500
MDSGuy24: posts big blind 3000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MDSGuy24 [7d 5s]
klmz88: folds
abdoabdo: folds
Stmp50: raises 3000 to 6000
juleslilbit: folds
clyjoe: folds
steveb1971: folds
squeezemall: folds
chefjeffkw: folds
MDSGuy24: calls 3000
*** FLOP *** [6c Kd 7c]
MDSGuy24: checks
Stmp50: bets 6000
MDSGuy24: calls 6000
*** TURN *** [6c Kd 7c] [Js]
MDSGuy24: bets 6000
Stmp50: folds
MDSGuy24 collected 26850 from pot
MDSGuy24: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 26850 | Rake 0
Board [6c Kd 7c Js]
Seat 1: chefjeffkw (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: MDSGuy24 (big blind) collected (26850)
Seat 3: klmz88 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: abdoabdo folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Stmp50 folded on the Turn
Seat 6: juleslilbit folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: clyjoe folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: steveb1971 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: squeezemall (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Beautiful!
(For those who aren't familiar with "rampaging"... http://www.fellknight.com/blog/ if you care. I went on a LHE rampage about 2 or 3 years ago. Not as dramatic but infinitely more profitable, I'd imagine. Because I'm a lucksack.)
IIRC, it was alternating sessions of short-handed LHE, and Rampage.
http://www.shockwave.com/sw/content/rampage
ScottyZ
What it has in common with the RGP "Rampage" is that you start with a small amount of money, and you let it ride, playing higher and higher stakes. As you pointed out, it differs when it comes down to the actual play, as LHE and NLHE are entirely different games. I simply played the best (and most aggressive) LHE shorthanded game I could. There were no "rules" like "if I'm holding two pair or better I cap the turn and check-raise the river".Â
Scotty, that link is hilarious. And not too far from how I felt when I was on that ridiculously extended rush:
"In an experiment gone awry, you're a 50 ft. monster bent on destruction. The only way you can stay alive is to destroy an entire city block, bash a mechanized army and avoid dynamite tossing mercenaries! Grab a handful of civilians to keep you energized and go for broke!"
Is there any better metaphor for poker than this? I think not.
ScottyZ
So far I am 2 for 3. My first time is posted above for a nice little win, my second one cost me more than half my stack when the guy with KK called my 66 with an A on the board. I don't understand how he raised my turn bet, he ended up pushing, another 420 to me after having already put in 2k, and I got crushed.
My third one, the guy still called my turn bet, so I doubled the river bet, and he called that too! I thought I was done, but he mucked to my pair 9s.
It's a nice litle trick when it works, but I get nervous when they call the turn bet.
Table '19225081 26' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Jamroom (17050 in chips)
Seat 2: elee (10050 in chips)
Seat 3: rodgirth (33377 in chips)
Seat 4: homersbro (7335 in chips)
Seat 5: Wolffhound (9785 in chips)
Seat 6: Ezra Dean (5655 in chips)
Seat 7: DevilShark (30745 in chips)
Seat 8: SmartyJ157 (17475 in chips)
Seat 9: Austin3484 (16771 in chips)
Jamroom: posts the ante 25
elee: posts the ante 25
rodgirth: posts the ante 25
homersbro: posts the ante 25
Wolffhound: posts the ante 25
Ezra Dean: posts the ante 25
DevilShark: posts the ante 25
SmartyJ157: posts the ante 25
Austin3484: posts the ante 25
Wolffhound: posts small blind 100
Ezra Dean: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Wolffhound [5c 7c]
DevilShark: folds
Austin3484 said, "but im just doing poker now"
SmartyJ157: folds
Austin3484: folds
Jamroom: raises 600 to 800
Austin3484 said, "so have a lot of free time to watch"
elee: folds
rodgirth: folds
SmartyJ157 said, "same"
Austin3484 said, "poker is such easy money"
homersbro: folds
Austin3484 said, "for low limit cash games"
Wolffhound: calls 700
SmartyJ157 said, "well, it was"
Austin3484 said, "say 5 / 10 cent tables"
SmartyJ157 said, "I was WAY up"
Ezra Dean: folds
*** FLOP *** [Jh 7d 4d]
Wolffhound: checks
Austin3484 said, "im averaging $10 an hr"
Jamroom: bets 1400
SmartyJ157 said, "playing $1/2 2/4 over at Absolute"
Austin3484 said, "but i play 8 tables"
Wolffhound: calls 1400
*** TURN *** [Jh 7d 4d]
Austin3484 said, "what was your bankroll?"
Wolffhound: bets 1600
SmartyJ157 said, "cuz I had a 200% bonus"
Jamroom: folds
SmartyJ157 said, "started with 100"
Wolffhound collected 4825 from pot
Wolffhound: doesn't show hand
SmartyJ157 said, "played 1/2"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4825 | Rake 0
Board [Jh 7d 4d Td]
Seat 1: Jamroom folded on the Turn
Seat 2: elee folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: rodgirth folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: homersbro (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Wolffhound (small blind) collected (4825)
Seat 6: Ezra Dean (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: DevilShark folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: SmartyJ157 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Austin3484 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
We can only hope so.
I take from this that you don't like the "sliced bread"? If not, why not?
True dat! It should be in advertising. Maybe, I'll post a link to my posts which are in advertising -- cause I love -- cause I love.Â
I didn't think you ripped me off, but I'm always encouraged when really good players come up with plays/suggestions which are very similar to mine!
Cheers
Magi
ROFL. Fair enough.
Table '19613508 15' Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: elambert24 (1130 in chips)
Seat 2: kdizzle7108 (4007 in chips)
Seat 3: fyasko21 (4410 in chips)
Seat 4: ryguyca (1125 in chips)
Seat 5: CarRedRaj (975 in chips)
Seat 6: JackMehofff (4328 in chips)
Seat 7: nedyrkram (1000 in chips)
Seat 8: SirWatts (1450 in chips)
Seat 9: DRU217 (2565 in chips)
kdizzle7108: posts small blind 25
fyasko21: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SirWatts [Qh Ad]
4 folds
SirWatts: raises 100 to 150
DRU217: folds
elambert24: folds
kdizzle7108: calls 125
fyasko21: folds
*** FLOP *** [7s 2c 7h]
kdizzle7108: checks
SirWatts: bets 200
kdizzle7108: calls 200
*** TURN *** [7s 2c 7h] [4h]
kdizzle7108: bets 250
SirWatts: raises 500 to 750
kdizzle7108: folds
SirWatts collected 1250 from pot
Kdizzle was trying the bread move and Sir Watts sliced him up.
PokerStars Game #3978509913: Tournament #19613508, Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2006/02/15 - 02:18:27 (ET)
Table '19613508 20' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: aLwAyZEmPtY2 (2264 in chips)
Seat 2: Bearbar (5440 in chips)
Seat 3: kdizzle7108 (7212 in chips)
Seat 4: isuck123 (1385 in chips)
Seat 5: littleman74 (5220 in chips)
Seat 6: SirWatts (1950 in chips)
Seat 7: ~hostile~ (6205 in chips)
Seat 8: Johnybliz (4092 in chips)
Seat 9: Cequdor (4341 in chips)
littleman74: posts small blind 75
SirWatts: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
~hostile~: folds
Johnybliz: folds
Cequdor: folds
aLwAyZEmPtY2: folds
Bearbar: folds
kdizzle7108: raises 450 to 600
isuck123: folds
littleman74: folds
SirWatts: raises 1350 to 1950 and is all-in
kdizzle7108: calls 1350
*** FLOP *** [Qd Qh Ah]
littleman74 said, "ahh snap"
*** TURN *** [Qd Qh Ah] [7h]
*** RIVER *** [Qd Qh Ah 7h] [Tc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
SirWatts: shows [Kc Ad] (two pair, Aces and Queens)
kdizzle7108: shows [As Qc] (a full house, Queens full of Aces)
kdizzle7108 collected 3975 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3975 | Rake 0
Board [Qd Qh Ah 7h Tc]
Seat 1: aLwAyZEmPtY2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Bearbar folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: kdizzle7108 showed [As Qc] and won (3975) with a full house, Queens full of Aces
Seat 4: isuck123 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: littleman74 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: SirWatts (big blind) showed [Kc Ad] and lost with two pair, Aces and Queens
Seat 7: ~hostile~ folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Johnybliz folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Cequdor folded before Flop (didn't bet)