Suggestions Needed re: Handling Bad Players in Sit and Gos
When I start a sit and go and see one of the players with my notes of "never folds, plays every hand" I am usually pretty happy. These people are often a decent source of chips if you can get a hand or two to go heads up with them. They often early on will gain chips just by their heavy betting and calling and random raises because people assume they have a better hand then they have.
The problem for me happens when the table recognizes the player for what he or she is. In a recent $30 sit and go I saw there was a player to my left that had my favorite notes of being a calling station. I eventually got a hand that was worthy of "going for it." The hand was the following:
PokerStars Game #487913700: Tournament #1839945, Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2004/06/15 - 00:33:14 (ET)
Table '1839945 1' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: aiplp (1480 in chips)
Seat 2: jacknineoff (2000 in chips)
Seat 3: jacksrwild (1630 in chips)
Seat 4: hiholdemjj (1355 in chips)
Seat 5: Thyrian (1425 in chips)
Seat 6: Monteroy (2585 in chips)
Seat 7: Orsi (1075 in chips)
Seat 8: ussJohnston (1950 in chips)
Orsi: posts small blind 15
ussJohnston: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Monteroy [Ad Ah]
aiplp: folds
jacknineoff: calls 30
jacksrwild: folds
hiholdemjj: calls 30
Thyrian: folds
Monteroy: raises 90 to 120
Orsi: calls 105
ussJohnston: folds
jacknineoff: calls 90
hiholdemjj: calls 90
*** FLOP *** [2c Kd 9c]
Orsi: checks
jacknineoff: checks
hiholdemjj: bets 90
Monteroy: raises 120 to 210
Orsi: raises 120 to 330
jacknineoff: folds
hiholdemjj: folds
Monteroy: raises 2135 to 2465 and is all-in
Orsi: calls 625 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [2c Kd 9c] [3d]
*** RIVER *** [2c Kd 9c 3d] [Qd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Orsi: shows [Jh Ts] (a straight, Nine to King)
Monteroy: shows [Ad Ah] (a pair of Aces)
Orsi collected 2510 from pot
Now granted the hand did not turn out as I would have liked, but I still had an ok stack of chips after.
The problem was 2 hands later he cold called a healthy all in bet after a Q J 7 flop with K 3 off suit and hit runner runner straight. The person who took that bad beat did not take it so well :shock: .
Unfortunately for me, my secret of knowing this guy's bad play history was pretty much in the open and I noticed some very unusual changes to how the sit and go went. Now many players were entering each pot hoping to get a favorable all in call after a decent flop. Isolating the bad player was going to be difficult when usually conservative players were entering hands with K 4 and 5 9 suited etc. hoping for a good flop and a payday (barring fluke luck on the bad players part).
So here are my main questions:
1) How should a player alter his strategy with a medium stack of chips in this single table play environment. Should he/she become more conservative or instead try to enter a lot of pots cheaply and get lucky?
My concern was that the bad player having 7,000 chips (with next highest being 2200) meant nothing other then he was going to hand out those chips to other players (which he eventually did as he finished 6th). If I don't get a chunk of that handout I will be in trouble (which is what happened).
2) If you get a heads up with the player, what exactly should you do?
Even with that AA hand when I raised all in I had zero idea where I stood that hand. I was pretty sure I was ahead, but when he called I half expected to see a 2 9 for 2 pair. He could have literally any 2 cards on any hand (given he plays every hand).
A different hand came up later that illustrates the frustration at times. I was sb he was bb and everyone folded to me. I had 77. What should I do here? I know he will call any bet or raise. I ended up just calling, he then raised to 800 and I folded. He showed his Q 8 off suit and people laughed, but if I had gone all in that would mean I was a coin flip vs a horrid player, which I do not really want. Yet folding 77 before he acts in this situation just seems wrong.
I am also curious how players like this should be handled in a limit game.
Thank you in advance for any suggestions.
The problem for me happens when the table recognizes the player for what he or she is. In a recent $30 sit and go I saw there was a player to my left that had my favorite notes of being a calling station. I eventually got a hand that was worthy of "going for it." The hand was the following:
PokerStars Game #487913700: Tournament #1839945, Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2004/06/15 - 00:33:14 (ET)
Table '1839945 1' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: aiplp (1480 in chips)
Seat 2: jacknineoff (2000 in chips)
Seat 3: jacksrwild (1630 in chips)
Seat 4: hiholdemjj (1355 in chips)
Seat 5: Thyrian (1425 in chips)
Seat 6: Monteroy (2585 in chips)
Seat 7: Orsi (1075 in chips)
Seat 8: ussJohnston (1950 in chips)
Orsi: posts small blind 15
ussJohnston: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Monteroy [Ad Ah]
aiplp: folds
jacknineoff: calls 30
jacksrwild: folds
hiholdemjj: calls 30
Thyrian: folds
Monteroy: raises 90 to 120
Orsi: calls 105
ussJohnston: folds
jacknineoff: calls 90
hiholdemjj: calls 90
*** FLOP *** [2c Kd 9c]
Orsi: checks
jacknineoff: checks
hiholdemjj: bets 90
Monteroy: raises 120 to 210
Orsi: raises 120 to 330
jacknineoff: folds
hiholdemjj: folds
Monteroy: raises 2135 to 2465 and is all-in
Orsi: calls 625 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [2c Kd 9c] [3d]
*** RIVER *** [2c Kd 9c 3d] [Qd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Orsi: shows [Jh Ts] (a straight, Nine to King)
Monteroy: shows [Ad Ah] (a pair of Aces)
Orsi collected 2510 from pot
Now granted the hand did not turn out as I would have liked, but I still had an ok stack of chips after.
The problem was 2 hands later he cold called a healthy all in bet after a Q J 7 flop with K 3 off suit and hit runner runner straight. The person who took that bad beat did not take it so well :shock: .
Unfortunately for me, my secret of knowing this guy's bad play history was pretty much in the open and I noticed some very unusual changes to how the sit and go went. Now many players were entering each pot hoping to get a favorable all in call after a decent flop. Isolating the bad player was going to be difficult when usually conservative players were entering hands with K 4 and 5 9 suited etc. hoping for a good flop and a payday (barring fluke luck on the bad players part).
So here are my main questions:
1) How should a player alter his strategy with a medium stack of chips in this single table play environment. Should he/she become more conservative or instead try to enter a lot of pots cheaply and get lucky?
My concern was that the bad player having 7,000 chips (with next highest being 2200) meant nothing other then he was going to hand out those chips to other players (which he eventually did as he finished 6th). If I don't get a chunk of that handout I will be in trouble (which is what happened).
2) If you get a heads up with the player, what exactly should you do?
Even with that AA hand when I raised all in I had zero idea where I stood that hand. I was pretty sure I was ahead, but when he called I half expected to see a 2 9 for 2 pair. He could have literally any 2 cards on any hand (given he plays every hand).
A different hand came up later that illustrates the frustration at times. I was sb he was bb and everyone folded to me. I had 77. What should I do here? I know he will call any bet or raise. I ended up just calling, he then raised to 800 and I folded. He showed his Q 8 off suit and people laughed, but if I had gone all in that would mean I was a coin flip vs a horrid player, which I do not really want. Yet folding 77 before he acts in this situation just seems wrong.
I am also curious how players like this should be handled in a limit game.
Thank you in advance for any suggestions.