what would you do?

specialK

I just got moved to this table so I don't really have any sort of read on anyone. Just wondering what you would do?

Hand #11342172-83 at Wed10amA-011 (No Limit tournament Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 25/Jan/06 11:32:16

thebigugs is at seat 0 with 3245. <---- this is me
Brit is at seat 1 with 2405.
heynow877 is at seat 2 with 2920.
StevieD2sonAZ is at seat 3 with 1945.
peaceful is at seat 4 with 1975.
Denotsko is at seat 5 with 1840.
SSG Jonas is at seat 6 with 3550.
bkjoe is at seat 7 with 2770.
Jose_13 is at seat 8 with 5725.
Sierat is at seat 9 with 6820.
The button is at seat 7.

Jose_13 posts the small blind of 75.
Sierat posts the big blind of 150.

thebigugs: Jc As
Brit: -- --
heynow877: -- --
StevieD2sonAZ: -- --
peaceful: -- --
Denotsko: -- --
SSG Jonas: -- --
bkjoe: -- --
Jose_13: -- --
Sierat: -- --

Pre-flop:

thebigugs raises to 400. Brit folds. heynow877
folds. StevieD2sonAZ folds. peaceful calls.
Denotsko folds. SSG Jonas folds. bkjoe folds.
Jose_13 calls. Sierat folds.

Flop (board: 8c 9s 6s):

Jose_13 checks. thebigugs checks. peaceful checks.


Turn (board: 8c 9s 6s Ad):

heynow877 has disconnected, is dropped.
heynow877 has reconnected.
Jose_13 bets 150. thebigugs calls. peaceful goes
all-in for 1575. Jose_13 folds. thebigugs ? ? ?

DrTyore

I think the biggest problem I have here is not leading out on the flop.

  Standard continuation bet of about 600-800 may win you the pot right there.  Any callers suddenly have a flush draw to my mind, and any raisers have you beat.  Then, when the A hits on the turn, it's less likely that someone stuck around with A-Q (they should be re-raising with AK preflop). 

  I would have to call, and hope he didn't have something like A-8.

Why did you let yourself lose command of this hand?  This looks like the classic squeeze play by peaceful. I wouldn't let him away with it.... not to mention it costs you now... what, 1325 for a pot of 3 grand? Not too shabby

Mark

specialK

The reason that i didn't cont. bet the flop is because jose was a calling station... if i was betting out i didn't want to get called. and i was sure he would call the bet, especially if it looked like a continuation bet... and he could have any 2 cards. the board just looked to dangerous to bluff at.

SirWatts

Looks fine to me.  I think you should put in a small raise on the turn to maybe 600 to charge draws but as you played it I don't see any reason to call here.  This could be a really bad bluff but I'd have to think you're beat by 2 pair here a lot.  Also I think checking the flop is correct.  This is a bad flop to bluff at and you have 2 callers.

DrTyore

specialK wrote:

The reason that i didn't cont. bet the flop is because heynow877 was a calling station... if i was betting out i didn't want to get called.  and i was sure he would call the bet, especially if it looked like a continuation bet... and he could have any 2 cards.  the board just looked to dangerous to bluff at.

Hold on a sec...

A: You said you had no reads as it was a new table

B: heynow877 isn't in the hand!!

Umm.... am I missing something?

Seriously.. not trying to be a jerk, but I have to bet out at that flop, it's not too scary, as anyone calling your 400 raise must have something... and if they call / re-raise, then you know they're likely with a piece of that.

Mark

specialK

sorry, i meant jose, the dude on my right. i had been at the table for a revolution and just picked that up... i don't really consider that a read.

SirWatts

Oh yeah I'm not opposed to folding preflop.

Big E

specialK wrote:

The reason that i didn't cont. bet the flop is because jose was a calling station... if i was betting out i didn't want to get called.  and i was sure he would call the bet.


I just got moved to this table so I don't really have any sort of read on anyone. Just wondering what you would do?

Nice job picking up a read during the dealing of 1 hand?

I fold this pre-flop but I'm too tight, I just don't think AJo is strong enough from early position, that said I fold in your situation. I do agree with DrTyore, you need to come out post flop with a continuation bet and see where you stand, you may take it down there. If I was going to raise early with this hand I'd probably throw in a raise of about 4-5 times the BB, I don't want a lot of action with AJo and if someone comes back at me I dump.

ScoobyD

I just don't think AJo is strong enough from early position

I'd agree in general, but when you factor in the fact that you just got moved to the table and have no reads, I like the hand even less. I tend to tighten my range up even further when moving tables (especially when OOP), because I want to have some rough idea of who the action players are, and who the tight players are.

I do agree with DrTyore, you need to come out post flop with a continuation bet and see where you stand, you may take it down there.

I disagree here. Against one opponent maybe, but not 2. Maybe I'm too weak-tight here, but really don't want to get further invested in that pot OOP against 2 players with no reads on a very coordinated board.

I'm not a big fan of the call on the turn either. I agree that it's pretty tough to know where you stand in the hand at this point, but I think you have to make a raise here to define your hand. If you just call, any ace may assume they're good here and make a strong raise. If you pop it up to maybe 750 you still leave yourself with the ability to fold to a push, leaving yourself with about 2k chips. As well, I think you're giving draws around 3:1 which isn't giving them proper odds to call. This strikes as a decent balance, but I'm sure others will have better suggestions than me...

specialK

yeah i folded...

Turn (board: 8c 9s 6s Ad):

heynow877 has disconnected, is dropped.
heynow877 has reconnected.
Jose_13 bets 150. thebigugs calls. peaceful goes
all-in for 1575. Jose_13 folds. thebigugs folds,
showing Jc As. peaceful is returned 1425 (uncalled).


peaceful opts to show Ah Qs.
peaceful has Ah Qs 8c 9s Ad: a pair of aces.

Zithal

specialK wrote:

all-in for 1575. Jose_13 folds. thebigugs folds,
showing Jc As.

Unless you're using this as advertising to set up a play (which works oh so well online), I think this is the move I dislike the most.

Dave Scharf

Without peeking...

thebigugs is at seat 0 with 3245. <---- this is me
Brit is at seat 1 with 2405.
heynow877 is at seat 2 with 2920.
StevieD2sonAZ is at seat 3 with 1945.
peaceful is at seat 4 with 1975.
Denotsko is at seat 5 with 1840.
SSG Jonas is at seat 6 with 3550.
bkjoe is at seat 7 with 2770.
Jose_13 is at seat 8 with 5725.
Sierat is at seat 9 with 6820.
The button is at seat 7.

Jose_13 posts the small blind of 75.
Sierat posts the big blind of 150.

Everybody has lots of chips.

thebigugs: Jc As

Pre-flop:

thebigugs raises to 400. Brit folds. heynow877
folds. StevieD2sonAZ folds. peaceful calls.
Denotsko folds. SSG Jonas folds. bkjoe folds.
Jose_13 calls. Sierat folds.

Personally, I much A-Jo UTG in this spot. You didn't. That's OK. But I am reminding myself to "tread VERY carefully."

Flop (board: 8c 9s 6s):

Jose_13 checks. thebigugs checks. peaceful checks.

I do the same thing.

Turn (board: 8c 9s 6s Ad):

heynow877 has disconnected, is dropped.
heynow877 has reconnected.
Jose_13 bets 150. thebigugs calls. peaceful goes
all-in for 1575. Jose_13 folds. thebigugs ? ? ?

Easy fold. This raise if from a player who called in position pre-flop. I doubt he has AT.

And, you have EXACTLY what you have represented. Your pre-flop raise says "I have have a pair or big ace." Then your check on the flop says "I have a big ace and I missed." Then you call on the turn says "I have an ace with a possible kicker problem" Your oppnents, giving him some credit, knows that and is expecting one of you to call. I fold.

specialK

Dave Scharf wrote:

thebigugs: Jc As

Pre-flop:

thebigugs raises to 400. Brit folds. heynow877
folds. StevieD2sonAZ folds. peaceful calls.
Denotsko folds. SSG Jonas folds. bkjoe folds.
Jose_13 calls. Sierat folds.

Personally, I much A-Jo UTG in this spot. You didn't. That's OK. But I am reminding myself to "tread VERY carefully."

such a tight table, and i hadn't seen any hands...

Unknown

Your hand is good, but for your position it is subpar. You're one of the chip leaders and are trying to reduce your volatility, not increase it. You should fold, not raise pre-flop. Given though, that you've raised and that your position is bad after the flop, you want to clarify and end things as quickly as possible. So you make a probe bet. You'll either win right there (and resolve never to make this mistake again), or you'll get raised off the hand and be done with it. If niether happens, that is, if you get called, you've got a problem and will have to decide what to do later, but mostly you're done with the hand. When the ace comes on the turn, you must bet it for value -- if you don't somebody is going to realize that you're afraid of the situation and take advantage of you. If you get raised at that point, you're done with the hand. As you played the hand, however, when the other bets occur, you've gathered almost no usable information about the hand and are now trying to guess whether or not you're being semi-bluffed. It's doubtful that you are. The time for someone to make such a bluff was on the flop. Which scenario is more likely -- player in late position with a draw and the pot checked to him, doesn't bluff then decides to bluff when an ace comes -- He's bluffing that he has an ace? Or, is it more likely that either he flops a big hand and decides to trap; or that he has an ace with a stick himself and is now reasonably certain he has you beat given that you played so passively. So it's an easy (but reluctant) fold for you. That doesn't mean that you are, for sure, not the best hand. The other player might do the same with Ax. It just means that you've jumped off a cliff trying for a pot of gold, missed the pot and caught a branch halfway down. You're now dangling there asking "what should I do?" The answer is that it's too late. The real question which should have been posed pre-flop was "Should I jump for this pot?" and the answer should have been "No, that pot is too far away-- if you miss it, you'll fall.) No shame in the jump, by the way, I've done it plenty myself -- and almost always I've been wrong. The big reason not to jump though, is what I said in the first line -- you're looking to reduce your volatility, not increase it. If you were a small stack you'd be looking to increase your volatility and in that pursuit you would be willing overlook the fact that your hand was a little too weak for the postion.

All best.