GSN - High Stakes Poker -- Wow!
I watched GSN High Stakes Poker last night and was really impressed -- not with the production or the commentary, but with how much I could learn on reading players, and how easy it is to make huge mistakes.
The Vegas Gyno -- Nasseri was very readable. When he had aces it looked like he just won the lottery -- especially when Alieb was giving him action. He had the HAR when he looked at his hand, during his pre-flop though process and when he bet. He calmed down once he saw the flop and totally misplayed the hand. It was a classic greed/fear reaction to a hand. It was really neat to hear Negraneu say something later to let Nasseri know, he knew he had aces in that hand. I thought it was interesting that Alieb couldn't put Nasseri on a big pair and check the turn to see if he could hit the flush and get a nice pay day on the river.
Even after Negraneu told the Nasseri and the table that Nasseri had aces, Forest misplays a set. Nasseri makes a raise pre-flop raise with pokect 5's -- no HAR this time, no deep thought process, just a quick raise. AK-AT, small pair, big/medium suited connector pre-flop raise with no HAR. On a flop of 523 rainbow, Negraneu bets out, Forest calls and Nasseri has this massive huge HAR (it looks like he's having a heart attack) -- Nasseri raises all-in. There's only two possibilities here given Nasseri's reaction and raising two players all-in and how he played his big pair (aces) -- Nasseri has pocket 3's or 5's. But Forest says, "I have to call". I just can't see someone like Ted Forrest not able to make this read. The reality is that even WCP can make mistakes.
It was just an awesome look at these players and how few mistakes they do make -- and to realize that each mistake costs them huge sums.
Cheers
Magi
The Vegas Gyno -- Nasseri was very readable. When he had aces it looked like he just won the lottery -- especially when Alieb was giving him action. He had the HAR when he looked at his hand, during his pre-flop though process and when he bet. He calmed down once he saw the flop and totally misplayed the hand. It was a classic greed/fear reaction to a hand. It was really neat to hear Negraneu say something later to let Nasseri know, he knew he had aces in that hand. I thought it was interesting that Alieb couldn't put Nasseri on a big pair and check the turn to see if he could hit the flush and get a nice pay day on the river.
Even after Negraneu told the Nasseri and the table that Nasseri had aces, Forest misplays a set. Nasseri makes a raise pre-flop raise with pokect 5's -- no HAR this time, no deep thought process, just a quick raise. AK-AT, small pair, big/medium suited connector pre-flop raise with no HAR. On a flop of 523 rainbow, Negraneu bets out, Forest calls and Nasseri has this massive huge HAR (it looks like he's having a heart attack) -- Nasseri raises all-in. There's only two possibilities here given Nasseri's reaction and raising two players all-in and how he played his big pair (aces) -- Nasseri has pocket 3's or 5's. But Forest says, "I have to call". I just can't see someone like Ted Forrest not able to make this read. The reality is that even WCP can make mistakes.
It was just an awesome look at these players and how few mistakes they do make -- and to realize that each mistake costs them huge sums.
Cheers
Magi
Comments
If you love 70's games shows (I do) and poker it's well worth the 2-3 bucks to get the channel on it's own or just include it as a package.
Cheers
Magi
1) It's easy to read players when you see thier hole cards.
2) I love the concept that you are able to pick up tells on everyone in the world, and they all apparently exhibit the exact same behavior (this HAR thing you love to bring up)
3) If you are so damn good at reading and playing Magi, Why don't you try winning something of note? You should be a zillionaire winning every tour stop and not sitting around your telephone praying someone will take you up on the $100/hour lesson offer..
Cheers
Magi
Congratulations Magi.
My god you are an asshole, what exactly is the point or reason of posting garbage like this. Do you have that much of a hate on for Lou? Grow up why don't you.
I would bet this is part, perhaps a big part of why Lou was absent from the forum for so long? I know myself that I enjoy Lou's comments and I really appreciate the fact that he takes the time to answer questions and talk to interested people about poker. None of us are right all the time and even though we all have opinions we may not agree with each other but these kinds of disrespectful and insulting posts are really getting boring and tired, they have no place here. If this topic does not interest you don't post, move on. This kind of petty attack is disgusting, you should be ashamed of yourself.
I value your insight into poker, I think you have a great understanding of the game and it's great you share that but my god just leave it at that and grow the f$&k up!
As far as BBC's comments, I really appreciate his insights and comments on the forum. One of those immediately comes to mind: It's good to see him practicing what he preaches, and keeping the personal attacks private and off the boards.
As far as the OP, this show sounds "educational". I don't have cable, so hopefully I can watch somebody's recording of it sometime
I believe its actually a Bob Jarrett term and i'm sure countless others have discussed the topic before re:reads on viens busting out of peoples necks.
Huge
Adrenaline
Response
D
You'd think that anything you'd be able to pick up would be apparant to people actually in the room.
Unless the camera zooms in at the persons' jugular...
Not sure about the "HAR" but after reading Mike Caro's book of Tell's, seeing the players hole cards and then see how they act you can tell if they are giving off some kind of tell.
And I thought it was Huge Adrenaline Response?
I think it is easily seen watching the past episodes of WSOP etc. I don't think it would be to everyone in the room, the camera zooms up on PlayerX's neck, chest, breathing, Player Y in the hand has Miami John Cernuto in between them, (which is like an eclipse), so, TV gives us a view of the player and his reaction that the players live wouldn't be able to see.
Its like a replay in hockey, easily seen is the Todd Gill gaff on TSN, that is missed by the guy in the 200.00 seats at the Gardens live.
I think it's a tad unfair to expect everyone at that table to act on a tell (or series of tells) that the television viewer has picked up with no risk to themselves. Ever heard of the term "armchair quarterback"?
Sure, we see someone's veins popping every hand, but that's back to back hands, not an hour separated.
Mark
It was the shaking hangs which really outlined it for me! Â :D
Its the first televised poker show where the HAR was very obvious in an amateur player. Â Most other shows don't really show a close up of the player's reactions in a hand -- but this show did! Â I thought it would be great for interested forum members to look at the episode and see it. Â It was there when he had aces. Â All of the things mentioned above were present, if you look closely. Â And when he hit his top set, it looked like he was having a hear-attack -- at least to me. Â
This was the main point of my post, is that for the first time I saw a classic HAR response on a televised poker broadcast. Â You don't get to see this in most televised events because the players are pros, and the shots really don't reveal much. Â But, if forum members want to have a look -- it's there.
Have a look -- then look for it when you're playing a live game. Â The only problem is that some weak players actually get excited about really crappy hands -- just because you see it doesn't mean anything. Â You'll need to look for it, and then review the betting pattern in the hand and the style of the player to get a good indicator on what the player holds.***
Also, I'm not criticizing Ted's play. Â I thought it was interesting that a World Class Player like Ted could make this mistake -- one, I'm pretty sure Negraneu doesn't make. Â It's like watching a short-stop make an error and thinking how could he make that mistake. Â I'm not saying I wouldn't do that, I'm saying I'm surprised someone of his talent made the error. Â And sometimes it's just reassuring to see WCP make the same mistakes we make -- part of the game.
Cheers
Magi
**** If don't believe my post, please see this post as it fully explains why I make these posts. Â http://pokerforum.ca/forum/index.php?topic=7604.msg64393#msg64393
His Aged Mother
Hairy Armpit Rot
???
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MILTON ROCKS
HAR -- Huge Adrenaline Response. I didn't coin the term -- Dave Scharf's buddy coined it on a drive home with Dave. See Dave's site for more info. http://www.canadianpoker.com/amateur_poker_playerB/amateur27.htm
I took a public speaking course and learned how to control the adrenaline jolts, but it's very difficult. Dave also has an article on how to control it.
Hope that helps.
Cheers
Magi
Milton Rocks! Unpaid advertisement.
Really didn't think the Armpit Rot was right
AND
Thanks for the Plug
Remember !!\
MILTON ROCKS
THanks
Thats the name, but I haven't found any sites that has is up yet. Let me know if you find it though since I also want to download it.
Yes, check out my link in one of the earlier posts as it point to a press release on the show.
Cheers
Magi
Great concept, and poker where you can learn things from watching.
I highly recommend getting this channel.
As fas as Lou's reads go, Dr Nasseri did play aces like an amateur and seemed very readable on the hand.
I found it funny though, how Negreanu did the exact same tell, playing his KK like a pro. Negreanu's KK hand was equally obvious based on the preflop actions by both on each hand.
Lou, i have to disagree with your assessment of the kid. Daniel Alaei is maybe the scariest player at that table. I agree he has a free card and a check is the obvious move, after seeing what happened. I disagree. The only way he can break the Dr is to bet the turn, the money doesnt get allin on an Ace river if no bet is made on the turn. Danny is praying the Dr flat calls the turn, continuing his slow play until the river.
I would recommend as well -- even it only had old 70's game shows. However, they do have tons of poker.
Agreed on the betting pattern tell -- but there was absolutely no HAR or looking away weakly when others where making their decisions. Absolutely no reason for the huge overbet, other than the meta-game. I think the overbet was to prevent a steal becuase he was pushing players around and he didn't want to face a re-raise decision. But it was way too risky IMO.
I don't see how he breaks the Doctor either way. I do the double check quite often with players who have a tendancy to overplay hands. I check through twice. I can say it wins me huge pots, because the "overplayer" really wants to out-think you. From their perspective, you've shown no interest and they know you to be an aggressive player. The reasoning goes something like this "If Alaei is on a flush draw he will take a stab at the pot, especially since I've shown so much weakness.  Allaei will bet if he has ANY piece of this". Then when the flush hits, he's confident on his read and has a reason to overplay his hand -- he wants to get paid after all. It was all part of his "trapping plan". So the doctor comes out betting and now you have two options -- you can make a large bet -- say 40% more than the pot -- something that looks like you want to bluff a flush. He of course makes a crying call. I've done it many times -- but it really requires someone who loves to overplay their hands as your foe. The only trouble is when your foe has the bigger flush -- and it's happend to me!
If he bets and the doctor smooth calls -- then the doctor is aware that Alaei could be on a flush draw and it becomes much harder to extract more money. The doctor wasn't a horrible player, as he made the perfect raise on Alaei that gave him horrible odds to call for the flush draw. So, he's got some game. Just my thoughts.
Were you as intriqued by the view into this game? Do you believe that they were really playing with their own money? How much would they be compensated for this show -- say $50,0000?
Cheers
Magi
Pre-abmle: http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-journal.php?subaction=showfull&id=1130923501&archive=&start_from=&ucat=&
Day One: http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-journal.php?subaction=showfull&id=1131003055&archive=&start_from=&ucat=&
Day Two: http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-journal.php?subaction=showfull&id=1131097668&archive=&start_from=&ucat=&
Day Three: http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-journal.php?subaction=showfull&id=1131183602&archive=&start_from=&ucat=&
Happy reading.
Thanks -- very cool inside look to an inside look -- albeit a little skewed to the briliiance of Negraneu. Interesting that they were only paid 1250 per hour.
Cheers
Magi
I think they were all playing with their own money. I figured the players decided to play the game if it was rake free. Did any see any rake being taken?
It's so insignificant at those stakes that it's a non-factor.