Betting and raising with a large chip

esool

I thought this had been discussed here before but I was unable to find the posts..
I need to clear up an issue for a home game NL tourney.

Lets say the blinds are 100/200.

a) Preflop: Utg says raise and throws in one $500 chip.

b) Post flop: Player A throws in a $500 chip with out a verbal.

How much are these bets?

westside8

a) Since he announced raise, the raise will be 300 (500 total)

b) I'm assuming no raise before player A, that would be a raise of 500. If there has been a raise before him (say 200), that would be a call.

ScottyZ

I'm assuming no raise before player A, that would be a raise of 500.

This, I think, is more easily understood as follows:

I'm assuming no bet before player A, that would be a bet of 500.

Otherwise, I agree with westside's reply.

One chip is a call, or a bet of the exact amount of the chip, unless clearly stated otherwise before the chip goes into motion.

ScottyZ

P.S. How large is that chip anyway? 14.5g?

PokerKai

i think regardless of the street, these two rules are pretty much recognized anywhere youll go.

A single oversized chip, without a verbal declaration is considered a limp / call.
A single oversized chip, with a verbal declaration of raise w/o a specific amount is considered a raise of the maximum amount of the chip.

magithighs

I believe if the betting is opened, the large chip is a call, unless there is a verbal declaration prior to the chip going in.  So, pre-flop the betting is considered opened by the blinds and unless you make a verbal declaration it's a call.  Post-flop if no one has made a bet, the betting has not been opened it's considered a raise unless there verbal declaration prior to the chip going in.  If the betting has been opened, it's considered a call.  Then there's the sticky business on whether the big ass chip cover's the blinds. I'm in the middle of a game, but I believe it's coevered in Robert's Rules.  You can search it on google with ciafone (or two f's).

Cheers
Magi

SOS

I'm curious as to why others respond once westside has answered the query quite succinctly and correctly?

Is it for the post count of which you all have plenty? or is it for other more self gratifying reasons?

Personally speaking the reason for my response is for the post count of which I have few and now that they're worth something, I may have to throw in my snide remarks more often.

zero

SOS wrote:

I'm curious as to why others respond once westside has answered the query quite succinctly and correctly?

Is it for the post count of which you all have plenty? or is it for other more self gratifying reasons?

Personally speaking the reason for my response is for the post count of which I have few and now that they're worth something, I may have to throw in my snide remarks more often.

Are you f-ing serious. I hope that was a joke.

ScottyZ

I'm curious as to why others respond once westside has answered the query quite succinctly and correctly?

I responded because it is a pet peeve of mine when people use the word "raise" it would be more clear to say "bet". So, I guess technically I don't agree with you that he answered wholly correctly. The succinctness is a close decision between professionally brief and Clancy-esque long-winded, but we should leave that discussion for another thread.

Of course, I have been known, even before the "bonus for posting" promo, to inflate my post count with meaningless posts. For example, posting bad beat story after bad beat story, chronicling the exploits of Ryder Cup - Team Greenland (GO FJORDS!!), shamlessly promoting my Learn About Equestrian Horseback Riding DVD in the General Poker section, seeking legal counsel regarding the 1 Timbit - 2 Timbit limit holdem game I run in the local food court (if only someone else would join me... *sigh*), among other things.

Besides, IMO this thread is worth bumping again. I still want to know how large that chip was.

ScottyZ

westside8

ScottyZ wrote:

Besides, IMO this thread is worth bumping again. I still want to know how large that chip was.

esool wrote:

a) Preflop: Utg says raise and throws in one $500 chip.

b) Post flop: Player A throws in a $500 chip with out a verbal.

Or to answer your question, possibly a 12.5g professional, casino-like, clay composite dice purple chip.

esool

ScottyZ wrote:

P.S. How large is that chip anyway? 14.5g?

Sorry for the delay. I have been wanting to reply to this but I have not had the time. I am not sure of the weight of the large chip but since my foot is a size twelve (which translates into 12") I approximate the chip to be 10" in diameter. I "accidentally" dropped the chip on the floor beside my foot for the quick measurement.
I apologize for omitting this important information. The above answers I already knew but I thought that a chip this large may warrant some different rules..
Sorry for the trouble.

esool

magithighs wrote:

I believe if the betting is opened, the large chip is a call, unless there is a verbal declaration prior to the chip going in.  So, pre-flop the betting is considered opened by the blinds and unless you make a verbal declaration it's a call.  Post-flop if no one has made a bet, the betting has not been opened it's considered a raise unless there verbal declaration prior to the chip going in.  If the betting has been opened, it's considered a call.  Then there's the sticky business on whether the big ass chip cover's the blinds. I'm in the middle of a game, but I believe it's coevered in Robert's Rules.  You can search it on google with ciafone (or two f's).

Cheers
Magi

Uhh.. Thanks for the help. Did you even read my post or the replys before yours?

ScottyZ

I "accidentally" dropped the chip on the floor beside my foot for the quick measurement.

Does this action count as a raise or a bet when you're first to act?

Robert's Rules doesn't cover it.

ScottyZ

magithighs

esool wrote:

magithighs wrote:

I believe if the betting is opened, the large chip is a call, unless there is a verbal declaration prior to the chip going in.  So, pre-flop the betting is considered opened by the blinds and unless you make a verbal declaration it's a call.  Post-flop if no one has made a bet, the betting has not been opened it's considered a raise unless there verbal declaration prior to the chip going in.  If the betting has been opened, it's considered a call.  Then there's the sticky business on whether the big ass chip cover's the blinds. I'm in the middle of a game, but I believe it's covered in Robert's Rules.  You can search it on google with ciafone (or two f's).

Cheers
Magi

Uhh.. Thanks for the help. Did you even read my post or the replys before yours?

Absolutely -- but did you happen to read my need to sound smart?  See http://pokerforum.ca/forum/index.php?topic=7604.msg64393#msg64393 as BBCZ has outted me.   :'( And it does get my post  count up! 

I find that answering the questions outright (which was done) allows folks to "make up" their own interpretation of the rule, without actually knowing the rule.  So often someone interprets the second situation and then the action is pre-flop with no verbal declare and folks assume that is a raise because that's what was answered in the second example.  And, then there's the tricky part of figuring out if the large chip is actually a raise when it's not more than half a raise of the BB.  Additionally, there's the actual physical size of the chip which changes everything. 

Don't you find this rule is most often misunderstood?  I do, and was hoping to help folks get an understanding of the rule rather than the answers.

Sorry if you already know it though.

Cheers
Magi

esool

magithighs wrote:

Don't you find this rule is most often misunderstood?  I do, and was hoping to help folks get an understanding of the rule rather than the answers.

Yes and this is why I posted this question. If I could save just one life then it was worth it.

Sorry if you already know it though.

I've known it and bumped into different variations so often I have forgotten which was correct. Plus I'm usually drunk when playing..

magithighs

I've known it and bumped into different variations so often I have forgotten which was correct. Plus I'm usually drunk when playing..

That's what I figured, hence I didn't answer the question, but rather tried to put in a "coles notes" version of the actual rule. (one more buck!!)

Cheers
Magi

DrTyore

magithighs wrote:

That's what I figured, hence I didn't answer the question, but rather tried to put in a "coles notes" version of the actual rule. (one more buck!!)

"coles" notes? As in Hollywood cole? Wow.. those would be completely unreadable.. I can see it now

U knead 2 r :ah if U half a str8 dawg.

<shudder>

Mark