AA in UTG+2 - could i have gotten more money in the pot?
OK, I was playing in a home game 1/2 NL max buy $100.
I bought in for $80 and worked my stack to just over $300. I get AA in UTG+2.
Now I've heard by lots of people that AA likes lots of players, so I keep this in mind. Remember there are lots of loose players at these games (I'd say 50% are loose and 20% of the total are wreckless).Â
ok UTG calls the $2, UTG+1 folds, I bump to $12
i get 2 callers, then a big stack calls ($260 in front of him). I think I had everyone covered on the table. Button calls, small blind folds, then Big blinds bumps to $50.
So now there is +1+2+2+12+12+12+12+12+48 in the pot. $113 in the pot now. I smooth call, then the big stack calls, and the button is all in for $44.
Pot is now $113+38+38+32=$221
Flop come A85 (8 5 are both hearts). Big stack is notorious for sucks out for straight and flush draws.
Big blind checks, I bet all in for $260. Big stack calls quickly for $210 and big blind FOLDS.
Big stack called with AQ and no hearts.
I take down the pot for 635 (rake taken).
Was that overly aggressive or do you think the AQ would have bet the flop. I dont think KK would have called any bet?
thx
I bought in for $80 and worked my stack to just over $300. I get AA in UTG+2.
Now I've heard by lots of people that AA likes lots of players, so I keep this in mind. Remember there are lots of loose players at these games (I'd say 50% are loose and 20% of the total are wreckless).Â
ok UTG calls the $2, UTG+1 folds, I bump to $12
i get 2 callers, then a big stack calls ($260 in front of him). I think I had everyone covered on the table. Button calls, small blind folds, then Big blinds bumps to $50.
So now there is +1+2+2+12+12+12+12+12+48 in the pot. $113 in the pot now. I smooth call, then the big stack calls, and the button is all in for $44.
Pot is now $113+38+38+32=$221
Flop come A85 (8 5 are both hearts). Big stack is notorious for sucks out for straight and flush draws.
Big blind checks, I bet all in for $260. Big stack calls quickly for $210 and big blind FOLDS.
Big stack called with AQ and no hearts.
I take down the pot for 635 (rake taken).
Was that overly aggressive or do you think the AQ would have bet the flop. I dont think KK would have called any bet?
thx
Comments
Let me get this straight, you had the next biggest stack all in, and dominated. You made a pot of 635 (in a 1/2 game, meaning you won 127 x BB), and you're wondering if you could have gotten MORE?
Geez, I guess it is possible, but damn man... that's a great pot at it is! Don't complain, and may all your aces pay as well!
Actually... screw that... may all of MY aces pay so well.
Mark
Well its the most I've gotten paid on aces... but I was the 3rd biggest stack on the table, but I was the biggest stack on the flop. I'm far from complaining, but would like to know if I could have fine tuned it to extract more. Just want to improve my game with level of play, not rely on the strength of my cards.
ie. checked or bet $7 preflop for more limpers
or checked the flop.
Well, a $12 is 6x BB, which (by Harrington's book) a little higher than he would bet, because you want at least some action. However, you described your table as having maniacs and loose players. You got a raise so that you could re-raise, so even if you had smooth called, you may have gotten another 10 bucks or so? Not a big deal... I hate slowplaying AA, it plays well against 2-3 players, but is in DEEP trouble against 3 or more. After getting 5 callers at 6XBB (BTW.. yes you are at a nutty table), I would be overjoyed about the re-raise so that you can isolate. I think this hand went damn near perfect. Well played!
Mark
In toronto, how about you?
Harrington wrote a NL cash game book? Whoah!
I don't think you did anything wrong. The preflop raise was abit high, but it still paid off for you. If it were me, I would be scooping up the chips with a grin ear to ear, and just relish the moment for a few minutes. Well done!!
Is my Math wrong?
Pre-flop pot is 221.
You bet 260. Pot is 481.
Big stack calls for $210. Pot is $691.
The Big Blind calls (how much $260?). Pot is $951.
Your pot after rake is $635? Huh?
You bet
coming into the hand. I'm guessing (or hoping) that it was much less than the other big stack or that
is a serious amount of a nice pot being lost to the rake.
I think it's fairly safe to assume that nobody would play in a game with a 30% rake though.
main pot = 221 - 18 = 203
side pot = 260 + 260 + 210 + 18 = 748
entire pot = 951
951 - just over 300 - rake = 635
i think that may be what he means. but seriously to answer your question redlude i don't know if you could possible get more $$ into that pot. i have to say that i wouldn't be slow playing that hand preflop, definately reraising the $50 reraise, already it was a decent pot to take down preflop and may not be worth the risk of getting outflopped.
There is no denying you are a favourite if the whole table puts all their money in at this point, but I just can't advocate risking the possibility of losing every dollar I have in front of me by not re raising pre flop to push out hands that can beat me.
http://twodimes.net/poker/?g=h&b=&d=&h=As+Ac%0D%0AQs+Qd%0D%0AQc+Kh%0D%0AAd+Jd%0D%0A5d+5h
If we look at a scenario like this and assume that they are all going to call the re raise if we don't reraise again to isolate we find ourselves in a virtual coinflip against 4 hands. Granted nobody in their right mind would call 50 with any of these hands to begin with, the limp raise call call call call scenario that has been presented puts forth a scenario that is obviously a ridiculously bad table, and most players that play this weak and loose to begin with would not hesitate to put in a call with any of the hands listed. You are a favourite over all of them, but based on how sizable the pot already is, I see absolutely no reason to further slow play this hand.
You would be a coin-flip for winning but have only put in 20% of the pot. Isn't that a +EV play? I'm just learning ring games, and am focusing on limit, so I could be wrong (and I hate variance, so I wouldn't make this play). Could some more of the max-EV/NL players (BBC?) comment on this - I'm curious too.
Me either, I like SirWatts suggestion of bumping it again to 150. But again, this attempt to limit the field ignores the OP.
Then you are, by defintion, choosing less variable, less profitable approach.
It is desirable to add risk if you add gains out of proportion to the risk.
If I had to do some rough math and say we played the hand 100 times... I apologize in advance as its late, i have class and this will be rough.
Lets assume AQ is the only hand that will call the big re raise, and will do so... 25% of the time, and also assume without consideration of the flop cards that all the money goes in.
Aces are a 93% favourite over AQ I believe, so we can say he wins 7 out of 100 hands or 7/4 = 1.75 of the 25 times he calls out of 100.
Aces against the randoms (4) hands besides his will win the pot 55% of the time and granted the pot will be bigger, but does anyone want to do some math and figure this out? I will tomorrow if I find time but I need sleep.
I think we will find that you would find more money getting your money in against all of those hands in the long term, but the varience in the short term could cripple you. Its exactly like you said though, with infinite money and trials, you will show a positive gain in the long term, and again like you said the varience could dessimate you in the short term.
Anyways, I was just curiuos what those numbers will work out to, which could perhaps bring up a new thought abuot which play has the most value per se. The numbers are absolutely hypothetical and feel free to adjust them as need be, I am just wondering how big a difference there is?
Adam
Sorry, this sentence should sum it up: How much value are you sacrificing versus how much risk are you eliminating, is there a ratio that can be found here to determine exactly how much value you are sacrificing?
Sorry BB folds.............