Question for Lee, Terry or others
In a cash game, where there are 3 or more people in the hand and one of them is all-in.
Let's say there's no side pot, but there is a bet on the river. The other live player(s) folds.
If the remaining live player is about to muck his/her hand forgetting about the all-in player, (here comes the question) Is it the dealer's responsibility to tell this person not to muck as there is the all in player to show down with?
Or... ( and this is my side of the dilemma)
Is it the responsibility of the player to know there's an all in player and not muck?
This scenario came up recently at another casino and the dealer explained to me afterwards that the reason they alert the forgetful player is to avoid the hassle of arguement by him/her if they allow the muck to proceed.
I still disagree and feel that if an idiot wants to muck, let him, however I'll respect your opinion on it.
Let's say there's no side pot, but there is a bet on the river. The other live player(s) folds.
If the remaining live player is about to muck his/her hand forgetting about the all-in player, (here comes the question) Is it the dealer's responsibility to tell this person not to muck as there is the all in player to show down with?
Or... ( and this is my side of the dilemma)
Is it the responsibility of the player to know there's an all in player and not muck?
This scenario came up recently at another casino and the dealer explained to me afterwards that the reason they alert the forgetful player is to avoid the hassle of arguement by him/her if they allow the muck to proceed.
I still disagree and feel that if an idiot wants to muck, let him, however I'll respect your opinion on it.
Comments
BUT
The casino wants lots of games to increase their profitablility. If a player loses a pot because of a technicality they will A) understand that it was their mistake and play on with no hard feelings or
BUT
Poker purists will say that is part of the game and it is the player's fault for mucking. To this I answer "Why scare off a fish?" If said player mucks because he is unaware that someone else is in the pot doesn't this put him in the fish category. And don't you like playing with fish?
Well hope that helps.
Personally I like pkrooster's answer, nothing beats a firm maybe. But seriously folks (insert rimshot here)...
The dealer must call his game, that includes announcing the all-ins, whose turn it is to act, giving the player the available options (the only options the dealer announces are check or bet ... never offer a raise or fold as an option)and of course the value of the last monetary action ie. "$10 to call". It is vital to the integrity of the game and more importantly the perceived integrity of the game that the dealer never coach or be perceived as coaching a player.
The dealer's responsibility is to run the game in a manner that will allow every player an equal opportunity to win the hand. The dealer, having done their job properly before the situation presents itself, should not tell the player anything that will directly or indirectly give a player an advantage or another player a disadvantage. Even if the dealer did not call the game properly and neglect to announce the all-in player, the dealer must never offer an opinion to a player on how to play or fold a hand. The player is always fully and totally responsible for their hand and must follow the game and be aware of what is happening at the table.
I still like pkrooster's answer, especially since it is shorter and easier to read.
I'd like to wish everyone the very best of the season and hope all of the members and their families have a healthy, happy and prosperous New Year.
Cheers,
Lee
I appreciate the thoroughness of each answer.
Happy Holidays to you and your family also
You're in a Casino and playing 1/2 NL and have been given a $100 marker from the Casino just so that you don't have to leave the table and go to the bank machine. You promptly build your stack back up to your initial buy-in ($200) and want to pay the Casino back right away. At the time, you are not in the hand. You take $100 off the table and hand it back to the pit boss, the person who gave the marker to you in the first place. The rest of the players begin to complain that "you are not allowed to take money off of the table unless you are leaving".
1) Are the players at the table correct?
2) Is this unethical?
3) Is this a rule that is a 'grey area', each Casino has its own rules regarding what they would do in this circumstance.
4) What would a fair compromise be in this case?
i) Have to leave the table for between 3-5 orbits
ii) Have to repost immediately
iii) There is no compromise, you can't do it!
I appreciate the responses in advance.
stp
If, for example, the dealer announced "Showdown! Please turn up your cards, ladies and gentlemen.", once the 3rd player to the river folded and it was just heads up...there is absolutely nothing wrong with that and is in-line with standard dealing procedures.
However...
If, for example, the dealer announced, "Buddy!!! DON'T MUCK YOUR CARDS!!! Jeeze man, that was close. I know you got this other guy beat. Show him your trips and I'll push you this pot.", well, I think that would be slightly out of line. LOL!
Do you remember more specifically what took place?