My feeling is that you need patience for tournaments. Please let me know your thoughts.
I think you need patience for both. The main difference that I've noticed is that in cash games you're concerned with the long term, and losing some big hands is something you get more used to (for example winning 33% of time is profitable). In tournaments, you have no long-term, so you'r always trying to get in with the best of it. From what I'm learning, tournies require much better reading/bluffing skills, while cash games require much better math/calculation skills.
As beanie said in tourney's there is no long term. I prefer to get my chips in large when I believe I'm ahead and hopefully not on a coin toss. In cash games losing a large all in means re buy or find another table. Losing a few all ins is not nice but not the end of your poker day. Losing a large all in means you are now in trouble in a MTT. Eventually you need a card rush or winning while on the losing end of a few coin tosses.
On a different note from strategy and money tournament players need time, lots of of it. I never play MTT's or live anything because I rarely have 5 hours for an online MTT or three days to play one day at the nearest casino.
Cash games are great because you can zip in and out at your convenience and STT's usually take an hour or so.
Of course the way I have played MTT's in the past 30 minutes is usually plenty. :-/
I know this isn't what you were looking for but damn I wish I could play more MTT's.
I agree with Trevor. I often hear of people using pot odds to justify calls in tournaments that do not need to be made. In a tournament if you are put on all your chips - even when you have the odds to call - you must consider the situation. If you are favoured to hit 1 in 5 and you are getting paid 8 to 1 - you should call, right? Well in a cash game the answer is Yes.
However, if you dont have too much invested and still have a nice chip stack (considering blinds) you are making a bet that will put you out of contention more times than not.
Using pot odds and implied odds in a tournament situation is very important. But if you are losing 4x for every one time you win - there is no long run profit to be made - you are sitting with the rail birds. So use your math skills in a tournament but more importantly know the other players, how they bet and how they bluff that will give you the edge to make the calls - not the odds.
And if you end up on the rails use those pot odds to be a life-long winner in the cash game.
how they bet and how they bluff that will give you the edge to make the calls - not the odds.
The odds still matter though. Basically it becomes an EV vs. variance risk decision. You can sometimes pass on small edges to wait for bigger ones later where you have less risk of busting. But eventually, you'll have to put some chips at risk to do well in a tourney. And sometimes making a call where you know you're an underdog is also the correct decision based on blind levels, stack sizes, pot odds, etc.
I agree 100% - but sometimes even if you think you are 50-50 - taking into consideration blinds, stack etc... you are better off not making a call in a tournament.
I agree 100% - but sometimes even if you think you are 50-50 - taking into consideration blinds, stack etc... you are better off not making a call in a tournament.
I'd go as far as to say if you think you're ahead 60/40 there are circumstances where folding might be the best option. Of course I think I am in the vast minority here...
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Oh, theres a long term in tournaments and it's a VERY loooooooong long term.
thats like saying you need an ice hockey player need a good shot when discussing the characteristics of a floor hockey player and an ice hockey player
english only at the tables please
Cash games are great because you can zip in and out at your convenience and STT's usually take an hour or so.
Of course the way I have played MTT's in the past 30 minutes is usually plenty. :-/
I know this isn't what you were looking for but damn I wish I could play more MTT's.
However, if you dont have too much invested and still have a nice chip stack (considering blinds) you are making a bet that will put you out of contention more times than not.
Using pot odds and implied odds in a tournament situation is very important. But if you are losing 4x for every one time you win - there is no long run profit to be made - you are sitting with the rail birds. So use your math skills in a tournament but more importantly know the other players, how they bet and how they bluff that will give you the edge to make the calls - not the odds.
And if you end up on the rails use those pot odds to be a life-long winner in the cash game.
The odds still matter though. Basically it becomes an EV vs. variance risk decision. You can sometimes pass on small edges to wait for bigger ones later where you have less risk of busting. But eventually, you'll have to put some chips at risk to do well in a tourney. And sometimes making a call where you know you're an underdog is also the correct decision based on blind levels, stack sizes, pot odds, etc.
I'd go as far as to say if you think you're ahead 60/40 there are circumstances where folding might be the best option. Of course I think I am in the vast minority here...
stp
stp