A Really Bad Bet and A Really Bad Call.. Two Wrongs Do Not Make A Right!!
I was at Casino Niagara last Friday. I was playing 1-2 NL (these games are unbelievably soft) I got a little outta line in this hand below.
I am on the button with :ks :kd. I raise it up $15 to go preflop. Called by the Small Blind.
Flop comes :8h :8s :3h
SB checks to me, I bet $20
Turn :6h
SB bets $50 (I think to myself he showed me a nut flush 10 minutes ago with the exact same move. Is this a bluff this time? If he had the nut draw, why did he not bet in to me on the flop? He has to have a pocket pair... 75% sure...)
I decide to push all my cash and chips in. $290 total.. "$240 to call!", the dealer says to him. I am thinking he has to put me on the nut flush if he calls here I will be really suprised. This is a huge bet to call with anything smaller than a flush (ie 2 pr, set) Although I do not put him on these hands.. QQ is what I have him pegged at. After about 40 seconds, he says quietly, "I call" My throat dropped in to my chest.. He rolls over
:8d :10h
I was like OMG!!!! I am done... And I was... river comes off a brick.. :2c and I am tapped..
I rebuy and watch him stack my chips up for the next hand in awe. I do not know how he can call $240 more with that hand. I hope to see him next time I go there
Comments are welcome... I do realise I could have played the hand differently. I tried to put a move on my opponent and got bit in the ass..
Pokerkid1215
I am on the button with :ks :kd. I raise it up $15 to go preflop. Called by the Small Blind.
Flop comes :8h :8s :3h
SB checks to me, I bet $20
Turn :6h
SB bets $50 (I think to myself he showed me a nut flush 10 minutes ago with the exact same move. Is this a bluff this time? If he had the nut draw, why did he not bet in to me on the flop? He has to have a pocket pair... 75% sure...)
I decide to push all my cash and chips in. $290 total.. "$240 to call!", the dealer says to him. I am thinking he has to put me on the nut flush if he calls here I will be really suprised. This is a huge bet to call with anything smaller than a flush (ie 2 pr, set) Although I do not put him on these hands.. QQ is what I have him pegged at. After about 40 seconds, he says quietly, "I call" My throat dropped in to my chest.. He rolls over
:8d :10h
I was like OMG!!!! I am done... And I was... river comes off a brick.. :2c and I am tapped..
I rebuy and watch him stack my chips up for the next hand in awe. I do not know how he can call $240 more with that hand. I hope to see him next time I go there
Comments are welcome... I do realise I could have played the hand differently. I tried to put a move on my opponent and got bit in the ass..Pokerkid1215
Comments
Vitamins, they help.
Pokerkid1215
It's possible. I do not know what kinda tell he could of gotten from me. I do not give off much emotion when I win or lose. But, it may be possible, I suppose.
Pokerkid1215
His medication could have also run out too...
There's your problem. You decided he had to put you on a hand. You thought your bet meant you had the nut flush. Notice the trend? You thought wrong. He probably put you on an over pair from the get go.
Get over it.
Why do we have some posters (like BBC Z) that have to make stupid replies to serious posts. Is he (BBC Z) so good that this scenario from the OP bores him? Well then, don't reply and move on to something more exciting..like another $5 SNG in KW!!! Should I point out how non-professional BBC Z really is? With his childish, tatrum-like post here:
http://pokerforum.ca/forum/index.php?topic=6818.0!
I'm getting sick of reading threads where other members put stupid things in (like "YAWN" !?!?). Why bother? Skip it. Go away. Post somewhere else.
Pokerkid1215...hard to believe a "solid player" calls 7.5X the BB heads-up with 8-10 off. Even in the SB. If you go all-in on the flop, he still calls (if he calls with 8-10 off and hits trips, he's not laying down!). Out of the SB, I worry about all kinds of hands here. As much as I love my K-K, I would not be confident enough to push it all-in; not even representing a flush..and he is most likely not going to put you on a boat (3-3? 8-3? 8-6?) and only slightly more likely a flush (Ah-Xh or the like). Me, I bet pot on the turn and see what his readtion is..that is the best place for me to get away from the hand if he really likes the 6, the heart or already has the 8 or A-A. Just my opinion. At least it contained some info and insight..thanks for stopping by BBC Z !!
<DrTyore puts on his asbestos body suit to protect himself from the inevitable flame war>
Mark
This was far from a serious post. What answer is OP looking for aside from "You are right, your opponent made a horrible call, you are the best player ever" ?. I'd group this with the bad beat stories except for the fact that hero was behind the entire way.
How stupid new are you? I've never played in any KW tournaments.
I don't consider my posting here to be a profession.
PFFT I've been far more childish in the past.
Actually, there was nothing insightful about your response.
I said it before and I'll say it again: If you have a beef with me, I'll be more than happy to deal with it in PMs. No need to clutter the board.
The fact of the matter is, on this hand theres no way to give any kind of advice.. The push on the turn reeks of no-flush because most people would be trying to extract the max via slowplaying not pushing people out with an overbet.. so you tipped your hand off to your opponent and he called your bluff..
NEXT!
PS MDSGuy and Carl... thanks for the insight.. I do realise what you are saying... but I would have to fold 8To to that bet... anyhow.. hand is over.. next one
Pokerkid1215
My comments with regards to this hand have been expressed by others.
Yes, I agree that folding 8To is normally the right move, but with flopping trips and no overcards on board, I would have a real hard time laying it down. Your all in screams that you don't want/expect a call, therefore I would be inclined to probably call. Maybe that's why I am always a bridesmaid and never a bride. (In strictly poker related terms only, I am not suggesting that I am a cross dresser....... not that there's anything wrong with that)
Anyway, who cares?
I think your preflop raise was fine. But also remember that people raise preflop that much at Niagara with Ax suited or K10o.Â
Once the flop hit, I wouldve been wary of pocket 8s, 10s (been burned by quads before there, low ones too) and then the turn brings a flush possiblity. The $50 bet would have had me more worried about Ah4h than 8-10o honestly but still there are too many hands that can beat you. I might have called the bet and hoped the board brought me a boat but if it didn't, I'd be ready to drop it.
This hand is probably only worth 85% of a YAWN because it's micro interesting on a horrible bluff level.
If you want honest appraisals of a hand, dont make it sound like a bad beat whine for 90% of it's content and then toss in a "What would you have done?" at the end.
If you had a flush, why would you try to be pushing him off his hand?
In regards to BBC, he's right in the fact this sounds like a bad beat post. The tone of the OP seems like, "OMG I played perfectly, look at how dumb this guy is", and thats how BBC read it. I personally think he's funny and provides some of the best analysis on this board.
I don't always agree with BBC but if I do, I think you're wrong!
Ahhh, I have had too much to drink anyway.
Merry Christmas to all....
Pokerkid1215
The action has nothing to do with the fact that you were behind when the money went in. It has to do with the fact that your action on the turn made no sense. You went all-in in a situation and a board where unless the other player had JJ or QQ (even then he likely only does it if he holds the Q or J of hearts in his hand), you were going to get called by hands that beat you. Your bet (assuming your pre-flop raise), reaked of weakness. If i was him I would have put you on a large pocket pair (and likely a big heart being in there)
Also if he called you with 89s instead of 8To and happened to spike trips would you feel his play was as bad? I ask because with both of you on deep stacks wasn't a player calling with a drawing hand a possibility.
IT BURNS IT BURNS...... THE GOGGLES, THEY DO NOTHING!
<ahem>
Okay.. back to reality
Umm...lesse.. KK called by 8-10, trips hit, huge bet when huge underdog... I agree with the "Only hand that calls is the one tha beats you" assessment... besides.. when you have trips, you can hit a full boat or quads with (in this case) 10 outs... not great by any means... but still 10 outs to the river is about 3.6 to 1 odds... he's only getting 1.7:1 (240 to call into a pot of 410) from the pot.... Sklansky hates him.. unless he had a tell on you, or he thought his 10h gave him the better flush (long shot undoubtedly, but hey!), giving him another 7 outs... which now makes it 1.3:1, and Sklansky loves him
Though, as pointed out, the only likely hand you could have had that beats his is A-K hearts... or another high connected since you guys have played together before, and he's pegged you as a good player.
So... in conclusion... bad bet, and a bad call.... two wrongs do not make a right...
And again, my theory that 99% of the time, people know the right answer and are just looking for people to confirm / assure them, is gaining empirical evidence.
Mark
Pokerkid1215
stp