I lay down KK....opinions please...
Hello all.
It is early in a single table $5.50 SNG (yes, I am a high roller) - I raise before the flop...get two callers...here is the hand in all its glory with my thoughts as the hand played out....
Seat 1: ganesgirlsgaga (3,060)
Seat 2: usc09 (1,470)
Seat 3: bowl900 (1,500)
Seat 4: 72 flatie (1,500)
Seat 5: st0neC0ldNutz (1,500)
Seat 7: caspian216 (1,470), is sitting out
Seat 8: DiamondD43 (1,500)
Seat 9: BostonBruce (1,500)
usc09 posts the small blind of 15
bowl900 posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to st0neC0ldNutz [Kd Kc]
caspian216 has returned
72 flatie has 15 seconds left to act
72 flatie calls 30
st0neC0ldNutz raises to 100 --> ok raise imo
caspian216 calls 100
DiamondD43 folds
BostonBruce folds
ganesgirlsgaga folds
usc09 folds
bowl900 folds
72 flatie calls 70
*** FLOP *** [8c 2s Td] --> semi safe board to try to a check raise on...
72 flatie checks
st0neC0ldNutz checks
caspian216 checks
> ahhhh no takers, so much for the check raise
*** TURN *** [8c 2s Td] [Qs]
> ok, potential fl.draw and J9 has a straight, would they call with J9 pre.flop? prob.not...
72 flatie checks
st0neC0ldNutz bets 300
> Time to bet 300 into a 345 pot...now i give wrong odds to the flush chaser, QT now scares me
caspian216 folds
72 flatie calls 300
*** RIVER *** [8c 2s Td Qs] [Tc]
72 flatie bets 1,100, and is all in
> Uh oh, 10-J, K-10, Q-10, A-10 ?????
st0neC0ldNutz has 15 seconds left to act
st0neC0ldNutz folds
> Easy lay down or what ?
Uncalled bet of 1,100 returned to 72 flatie
72 flatie mucks
72 flatie wins the pot (945)
It was so early in the tourney, I didn't have much info on this flatie dude...he had not been out of line thus far.
please let me know what you think of my thinking. good play? dumb play? should I have bet the flop?
thanks for your suggestions.
It is early in a single table $5.50 SNG (yes, I am a high roller) - I raise before the flop...get two callers...here is the hand in all its glory with my thoughts as the hand played out....
Seat 1: ganesgirlsgaga (3,060)
Seat 2: usc09 (1,470)
Seat 3: bowl900 (1,500)
Seat 4: 72 flatie (1,500)
Seat 5: st0neC0ldNutz (1,500)
Seat 7: caspian216 (1,470), is sitting out
Seat 8: DiamondD43 (1,500)
Seat 9: BostonBruce (1,500)
usc09 posts the small blind of 15
bowl900 posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to st0neC0ldNutz [Kd Kc]
caspian216 has returned
72 flatie has 15 seconds left to act
72 flatie calls 30
st0neC0ldNutz raises to 100 --> ok raise imo
caspian216 calls 100
DiamondD43 folds
BostonBruce folds
ganesgirlsgaga folds
usc09 folds
bowl900 folds
72 flatie calls 70
*** FLOP *** [8c 2s Td] --> semi safe board to try to a check raise on...
72 flatie checks
st0neC0ldNutz checks
caspian216 checks
> ahhhh no takers, so much for the check raise
*** TURN *** [8c 2s Td] [Qs]
> ok, potential fl.draw and J9 has a straight, would they call with J9 pre.flop? prob.not...
72 flatie checks
st0neC0ldNutz bets 300
> Time to bet 300 into a 345 pot...now i give wrong odds to the flush chaser, QT now scares me
caspian216 folds
72 flatie calls 300
*** RIVER *** [8c 2s Td Qs] [Tc]
72 flatie bets 1,100, and is all in
> Uh oh, 10-J, K-10, Q-10, A-10 ?????
st0neC0ldNutz has 15 seconds left to act
st0neC0ldNutz folds
> Easy lay down or what ?
Uncalled bet of 1,100 returned to 72 flatie
72 flatie mucks
72 flatie wins the pot (945)
It was so early in the tourney, I didn't have much info on this flatie dude...he had not been out of line thus far.
please let me know what you think of my thinking. good play? dumb play? should I have bet the flop?
thanks for your suggestions.
Comments
No need to put so much out on the turn. Half pot is plenty. Makes your river decision simpler. I fold KK *all* the time but I am weak.
I think the T on the river gave him his trips (A10 or K10) or boat (Q10 my guess)
I like the laydown but you may have been able to take it down right on the flop with a bet. It's early so no need to get fancy.
Flop, no ace. Nice! Continuation bet here... don't check. No need to try for a check-raise, you didn't flop a monster. You might take it down right here, but I'm guessing you still get called.
Turn - right to bet out here... the draws are starting to come on board, don't let them catch up. Bet the pot.
River - he played like he had a Ten. Fold it.
I think with more aggressive betting, it doesn't get to the river and you take a modest pot on the flop or turn.
If they had a 10 I don't think there would be a way for you to get them to fold on the flop unless you placed a large bet, which they may have called anyways. Also if they had something like 10-7 or 10-9 they may have thought they were in kicker trouble and may have just checked to see if they could make something more, which they did on the river.
Overall I think it was a good lay down.
My question for you is why were you going for a check-raise on the flop when there were 3 people in the pot and you were second to act?
You have over 10bb in the pot on the flop, that is an awful, awful check. You bet 250-300 on that flop, period.
After that you have no idea where you are in the hand and it's all guesswork unless you've played with these guys alot before...good luck.
OK, agreed. But you will also see the giant overbet bluff at this level too. A read would obviously be useful. If he's the type to always CR with a strong hand, raise big hands weakly preflop to induce callers, and bluff their weak hands, I wouldn't think this is a T. Part of the problems at this limit is that this bet can mean 2 completely opposite things depending on the player...
If you completely discount tournament survival and are willing to swallow the entry fee for another tournament, sure. Not sure you're 50/50 on the read of this player though.
You might be right Hork. But to turn it around a bit: Are you sure that 2/3 of the time you'll see a T here? My gut says it's less than that... But again, the tournament survival argument is good too, but so is the double up early/start a new tourney one. If I feel I'm on my 'A' game and can get back into it waiting for a better opportunity, I fold. If I'm tired, and want to gamble, I call.
Well put. Fancy play in the early stages of a low-buyin SNG is seldom if ever needed.
I agree my check on the flop was stupid, and yes, I was trying to get fancy - I was trying to get more value for my "great hand"
in the end, I lost money and was forced to make some very tough decisions, that did not have to be the case.
I still feel the raise pre.flop was for a good amount, I may want to make it a bit more...
Some of you are thinking it is a $5.50 so I am good, but for me, I don't want to lose a $5.50 EVER to me they are $500 buy ins and I want to win. I have seen people (and have done it myself) do an all in raise on the river thinking that any bet will make everyone fold, so why not bet all in on the off chance that someone thinks you are trying to steal and calls with a mid-pair...I see that a lot in the low limits.
In the end I folded, I was not going to risk my entire tourney this early on a call that I was not sure of and there were too many hands out there that have me killed.
In the end, I won the entire tourney by playing a lot less stupid than how I played this hand...LOL
Phil Ivey is not in the field. Good fundamental play will rule the day.
I like the play so far. It's a "standard line."
Ugh. Why go for a check-raise? What do they have? There's hasn't been anything interesting pre-flop to indicate that caspian might bet. I would only EVER go for a check-raise here if I KNOW Caspian to have a "betting reflex." Lots of players do -- check to them and they bet. But, you have to KNOW that to deploy it.
Fair enough. I think the bet is fine.
Ugh. Tough position to be in. Hmmm... how much easier life would be if we had bet the flop? Definately easier.
Anyway... I probably call. His play if very consistent with the hand like the one's you suggest. He checks a T hoping to go for a c/r on the flop (another reason for you to have bet) and it doesn't happen. The Q hits the turn and he thinks "crap I gave him a free card to hit his A-Q" you bet and he thinks "he might be bluffing with A-K I better call him down" and then his miracle arrives and he moves in.
But, it's also consistent with a missed draw thinking "Dammit I missed, maybe I can bluff."
Overall, the current world I favour calling.
Sure wish I had bet the flop though...
However, everyone sees $5 differently.
I dont think you have enough info on this player which is tough.
Although your raise to 100 appears big - i find low buy in sng players look more at their stacks than the bet compared to the blinds.
He could have called with anything - and definately hasnt put you on KK.
You check the flop - bad bad bad - as has already been said.
He gets a free card and information on you.
You raised preflop - and check.
He know probably thinks you have a mid pair or a A and probably missed. If you had the 10 you would have probe bet to find out where you are.
Then you bet 300 on the Q - this looks like a blatant steal to me. He calls.
Next card a 10 - he knows you dont have it and also knows you dont know if he does.
His all-in was a great move. And I imagine he had no idea you had the hand you did.