Another Online Hand post-flop play

westside8

***** Hand History for Game 3202600205 *****
NL Texas Hold'em Trny:18285682 Level:3 Blinds (15/30) - Wednesday, December 14, 22:37:23 EDT 2005
Table ($200/15) CPC Satellite(539415) Table #4 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: jonthegreek3 ( $1010 )
Seat 2: MajorPolk ( $785 )
Seat 3: DankPowdrRun ( $2040 )
Seat 5: MRSHARX ( $690 )
Seat 6: lowmantotem ( $960 )
Seat 8: Step4IsNegEV ( $1470 )
Seat 9: gibert ( $740 )
Seat 10: westside88 ( $825 )
Seat 7: thunderAA ( $1325 )
Seat 4: Nikkyp ( $2075 )
Trny:18285682 Level:3
Blinds (15/30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to westside88 [ Kh Ks ]
Nikkyp calls [30].
MRSHARX calls [30].
lowmantotem folds.
thunderAA folds.
Step4IsNegEV folds.
gibert did not respond in time.
gibert folds.
westside88 raises [150].
jonthegreek3 folds.
MajorPolk folds.
DankPowdrRun folds.
Nikkyp calls [120].
MRSHARX calls [120].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3h, Ad, Qd ]
Nikkyp checks.
MRSHARX checks.
westside88 bets [275].
Nikkyp raises [550].
MRSHARX folds.

I have only played two hands since the start. This player has showed down with ace rag but also showed a bluff with a board like that once. Folding leaves me with 400 with blinds up to 25/50 soon.
What would've been a good amount for the feeler bet on the flop?
Should I check to see the turn?

stpboy

It depends how comfortable you are with your short stack game. Against a guy with only 690 preflop, I'm putting him all-in on the flop, he could very well have an ace but just as likely have KJ, K10, any queen, two diamonds with a gutshot...or his Mom needs the computer and he needs to bust out. Anyway, i'm calling here without a doubt that I'm either ahead or behind in the hand The question is, how did you lose so many chips sooo soon? Post THAT hand.

stp

Flint Bones

You raised a good amount preflop. The Ace hit. I am guessing he probably has it.

westside8

stpboy wrote:

The question is, how did you lose so many chips sooo soon? Post THAT hand.

stp

This is party, we start only with 1000. Just basically blinded, and raised twice and missed the flop completely, in LP and caller in EP raised post-flop and I folded

stpboy

This is party, we start only with 1000. 

Ahh, didn't know that. I still call though....

stp

stpboy

Do the hand histories show your opponents cards with Party? Wonder what he had when you folded.

stp

westside8

Not in tournament. Only cash-game, even then it is only when they muck after showdown

westside8

stpboy wrote:

This is party, we start only with 1000. 

Ahh, didn't know that.  I still call though....

stp

This was my thinking during the 30 second or so. When he limped in, he could've had A rag (most likely), or even AQ, AA, QQ (less likely) since every pot up to that point has been raised preflop. When I made that big reraise, it points to that fact that I had big cards or big pair and wanted to isolate. When the flop hits, he/she knew I probably would have hit it in one way or another, by checking, it was likely he/could check raise. I'm thinking he put me on AK while he probably hit his two pair (guessing he limped with A3). So by check-raising, he thinks it will put pressure on me to decided rather he limped with a monster and hit a set, or hit two pair. Either way, any ace beats me and I only have 2 outs, leading to me folding.

stpboy wrote:

It depends how comfortable you are with your short stack game. Against a guy with only 690 preflop, I'm putting him all-in on the flop, he could very well have an ace but just as likely have KJ, K10, any queen, two diamonds with a gutshot...or his Mom needs the computer and he needs to bust out. Anyway, i'm calling here without a doubt that I'm either ahead or behind in the hand The question is, how did you lose so many chips sooo soon? Post THAT hand.

I'm pretty comfortable with my short stack game, but by no means am I at your level Shannon (Both Bristol Wildcard and TOC comebacks). I didn't put him on any of those hands you listed, is simply because I guess I can't see opponents playing in a 200+15 making those moves (but this is my first big buy-in tourney, so no experience there). As far as putting someone all in preflop, I considered that, but I felt with a raise of 120 (150 total) in blinds of 15/30 was sufficient. I left enough room for myself if the flop was unfavourable (in this case for example), at the same time, I still have chips to push with so it won't be an autocall if I decide to push postflop

SirWatts

I think you can lay this down pretty safely.

Big E

Hey Wes...$200+15 wow!!!!

My silly white TAP ass would have to lay this down but I'm not sure it's the correct play? I like stp's thinking I just don't have the balls to play his style. I have a problem seeing monsters under the bed too often...and unfortunately when I occasionally grow some balls and think they don't have a hand and call they always show me they have a hand before they show me the door! I'd prefer to fold and hope to rebuild, I think with the blinds that low you still have room to play.

How did you make out?

westside8

Big E wrote:

How did you make out?

38/168. Played like 5 hands the whole thing. Quadriple up one hand (rivered a 2 outter - the guy bet into dryside pot with flush draw, my card mised his flush draw) and then almost a double up again the very next hand (99 guy has JQ - all in post flop of 10-2-3). Lost the last hand 77 vs. AJ (J came on turn)

Top 4 got package, 5-7 gets remaining money.

Metro

I am attaching this as a much needed vent.

This is for the guy who would not lay down his KK.

Playing in $1-2 NL cash.

I have A10 - raise prelfop in late position to $5 against 4 limpers. I get two calls. Flop hits Ace blank, blank. I raise $10 to find out where my A is. I get one call. Figure A with kicker problems. Turn card Ace. Now i figure I am good. Raise another $20. I get another smooth call. Turn is a K. There are no str8s or flushes on board. I check, he goes all in - another $17 - Did have have big slick with me beat all along - and now has the boat? Well i have to call just due to the amount of cash in the pot. But he also knows that making the raise - would be my guess. Either way i am not folding a $80 pot now - only have to be right 1 in 4x. And i could still be ahead - if his Ace has a weaker kicker.

He turns over Kings - made a boat on the river.

My question is - and how it relates to this hand - How do you hold onto KK with two aces on the board and my continued raising - he must have put me on AA so how can you not lay those down? Generally, i love a player who cant lay down pockets - they are profitable to play against - But i dont like getting burned either - thought about buying back in to get some of that cash back - but figured I would play my D - game due to tilt. I had a beer instead.

That is my vent. Wes I wish I had been playing you - you would have laid down KK to AA on the board with action, right?

ScoobyD

How do you hold onto KK with two aces on the board and my continued raising

For me the turn card makes it EASIER to continue with the kings, since it becomes less likely the original bettor had an ace with 2 of them already on the board, if the turn is a blank though and the bettor bets, I'm probably done with the hand.

Metro

I understand that 2 Aces reduce the chance of either players holding one. However, $20 is a lot to find out. Do you think I would have been best to push all in on the turn when the second ace flopped? Not in hindsight with the K dropping, but in general.

ScoobyD

Well you bet 10 into a 20 dollar pot on the flop, which isn't a huge bet, he might have thought this was a feeler bet with a smaller pair. Given the turn card is another ace, this probably reinforces that view. You bet 20 into a 40 dollar pot which is a decent amount, but might look like you're still trying to buy the pot. Or he could have been a total moron. As far as pushing the turn, if you put him on an A with a worse kicker, why not? He'll likely call, if you don't putting out a smallish bet is OK. If you put him on some type of flush or straight draw, you probably wanted to bet a little more than half the pot on the turn, but can't tell from your post. I'm not defending the guy's play (if the guy was going to limp KK, he should have put in a raise preflop I think to narrow the field), I'm just saying that it would be easy for him to assume that you don't necessarily have the ace in that spot...