Fun hand

Dave ScharfDave Scharf
in General Poker Chat
Fun... but I threw up in my mouth a little and I never even suffered a bad beat it was just a lot of money to invest in a hand of poker...

$40/$80 Texas Hold'em
Seat 10 is the button
Seat 1: tinman1908 ($2,041.00 in chips)
Seat 2: Dcifrths ($3,042.00 in chips)
Seat 3: panacea ($940.00 in chips)
Seat 4: DaveScharf ($660.00 in chips)
Seat 5: haileysdad ($2,442.00 in chips)
Seat 6: crazybull ($2,992.00 in chips)
Seat 7: mx4ever ($2,664.00 in chips)
Seat 8: BoogieDog ($3,085.00 in chips)
Seat 9: The E-girl ($1,600.00 in chips)
Seat 10: itwas_suited ($2,887.50 in chips)
tinman1908: Post Small Blind ($20)
Dcifrths: Post Big Blind ($40)
The E-girl: Post ($40)
Dealing...
Dealt to DaveScharf [ Kh ]
Dealt to DaveScharf [ Jh ]
panacea : Fold
DaveScharf : Raise ($80) - This is my min hand for an early position raise.
haileysdad: Fold
crazybull: Fold
mx4ever : Call ($80)
BoogieDog: Call ($80)
The E-girl: Call ($40)
itwas_suited: Call ($80)
tinman1908: Raise ($100)
Dcifrths: Fold
DaveScharf : Call ($40) - OK the SB raises. I am drawing.
mx4ever : Raise ($80) Argh ... another raise. Probably a big hand.
BoogieDog: Call ($80)
The E-girl: Fold
itwas_suited: Call ($80)
tinman1908: Call ($40)
DaveScharf : Call ($40)
*** FLOP *** : [ Td 6h 3h ]
tinman1908: Check
DaveScharf : Check I like the flop. I am drawing to a flush.
mx4ever : Bet ($40)
BoogieDog: Call ($40)
itwas_suited: Raise ($80)
tinman1908: Fold
DaveScharf : Call ($80)
mx4ever : Raise ($80)
BoogieDog: Call ($80) he flat called two pre-flop and now two more
itwas_suited: Call ($40)
DaveScharf : Raise ($80) I figure my K high flush will be good. This is a value raise
mx4ever : Call ($40)
BoogieDog: Call ($40)
itwas_suited: Call ($40)
*** TURN *** : [ Td 6h 3h ] [ Qd ]
DaveScharf : Check
mx4ever : Bet ($80)
BoogieDog: Call ($80)
itwas_suited: Call ($80)
DaveScharf : Call ($80)
*** RIVER *** : [ Td 6h 3h Qd ] [ 9d ]
DaveScharf : Bet ($80) I fluke off a straight. That's good.
mx4ever : Call ($80)
BoogieDog: Raise ($160) Ugh. Probably a backdoor flush.
itwas_suited: Fold
DaveScharf : Call ($80)
mx4ever : Call ($80)
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $2,357 | Rake: $3
Board: [ Td 6h 3h Qd 9d ]
tinman1908 lost $160 (folded)
Dcifrths lost $40 (folded)
panacea didn't bet (folded)
DaveScharf lost $560 [ Kh Jh ] (a straight, nine to king)
haileysdad didn't bet (folded)
crazybull didn't bet (folded)
mx4ever lost $560 [ Th Qh ] (two pair, queens and tens) This player flat called two and then capped the betting pre-flop
BoogieDog bet $560, collected $2,357, net +$1,797 (showed hand) [ Ad 8d ] (a flush, ace high) This player flat called two bets TWICE pre-flop
The E-girl lost $80 (folded)
itwas_suited lost $400 (folded)

Comments

  • BBC ZBBC Z
    Say it ain't so Dave...

    Do we get like $5 in our paradise accounts for reading this bad beat story? Is that the going rate?

    :)

    It's nice to know that fish exist on all levels of poker.
  • magithighsmagithighs
    I play with some of these characters from time to time.  It's a fun game with huge implied odds, cause they overplay hands.  There's some interesting notes, I'd like to throw out, and get your thoughts.
    Dave Scharf wrote:
    Fun... but I threw up in my mouth a little and I never even suffered a bad beat it was just a lot of money to invest in a hand of poker...

    $40/$80 Texas Hold'em
    Seat 10 is the button
    Seat 1: tinman1908 ($2,041.00 in chips)
    Seat 2: Dcifrths ($3,042.00 in chips)
    Seat 3: panacea ($940.00 in chips)
    Seat 4: DaveScharf ($660.00 in chips)
    Seat 5: haileysdad ($2,442.00 in chips)
    Seat 6: crazybull ($2,992.00 in chips)
    Seat 7: mx4ever ($2,664.00 in chips)
    Seat 8: BoogieDog ($3,085.00 in chips)
    Seat 9: The E-girl ($1,600.00 in chips)
    Seat 10: itwas_suited ($2,887.50 in chips)
    tinman1908: Post Small Blind ($20)
    Dcifrths: Post Big Blind ($40)

    One very solid Tag -- dcfrthis -- who loves playing angelina.  Sick boy.  I believe Tinman is also a solid player, who likes to overplay his hands.  Nice implied odds.  And, then there's that scharf guy!  Looks like a fun game.
    Dave Scharf wrote:
    The E-girl: Post ($40)
    Dealing...
    Dealt to DaveScharf [ Kh ]
    Dealt to DaveScharf [ Jh ]
    panacea : Fold
    DaveScharf : Raise ($80) - This is my min hand for an early position raise.

    I really don't like this hand first in.  I fold this, especially in this type of game.  Not uncommon for next guy to see you limp, and raise on almost anything, and next guy re-raise to isolate.  Is this a money maker in EP for you?  Only way to play it is to raise, so I like that part.
    Dave Scharf wrote:
    DaveScharf : Call ($40) - OK the SB raises. I am drawing.
    mx4ever : Raise ($80) Argh ... another raise. Probably a big hand.

    I don't mind the raises, as they're looking to build a multi-way pot.  Everyone's stuck playing this hand and everyone wants to take control.  I'm thinking a very wide range of hands suited connectors and one gappers down to 76, T8 or pair down to 5.  Could also be Group 1 2 hands as well, but I think it's a wide range.  Do you really narrow down Tin or mx4?  Tin sees everyone in the hand, so he's smart enough to build a multi-way.  And, MX4 cold-called your raise.  He would isolate instantly if he had a big hand, no?
    Dave Scharf wrote:
    BoogieDog: Call ($80) he flat called two pre-flop and now two more
    itwas_suited: Call ($40)
    DaveScharf : Raise ($80) I figure my K high flush will be good. This is a value raise

    I love this play.  Most players overlook the value of this play.  I can't tell you how many pots I win when I miss completely and continue betting.  Thing of beauty.
  • Dave ScharfDave Scharf
    I really don't like this hand first in. I fold this, especially in this type of game. Not uncommon for next guy to see you limp, and raise on almost anything, and next guy re-raise to isolate. Is this a money maker in EP for you? Only way to play it is to raise, so I like that part.

    In early position my "usual package" to open raise with: A-A to 9-9, A-Ko to A-Qo, K-Qo, K-Qs to K-Js, and Q-Js. If one gets too tight then one gets no action. I dip down to a jack for suited hands and this package is, overall, pleasantly profitable for me. Is K-Js specifically profitable? I think so. Using this hand as a example, I got called by Q-Ts and A-8s. Yes, the A-8s has me beat, but if he is willing to call with A-8s then I like my "package" against him overall.
    I don't mind the raises, as they're looking to build a multi-way pot. Everyone's stuck playing this hand and everyone wants to take control. I'm thinking a very wide range of hands suited connectors and one gappers down to 76, T8 or pair down to 5. Could also be Group 1 2 hands as well, but I think it's a wide range. Do you really narrow down Tin or mx4? Tin sees everyone in the hand, so he's smart enough to build a multi-way. And, MX4 cold-called your raise. He would isolate instantly if he had a big hand, no?

    I don't really have anyone on anything in particular at any time in this hand.

    I will tend to put tinman on a big hand. This is not a place to build a pot with an implied odds hand, I don't think, since he has to expect that since there are 5 callers of a flat raise there are a lot of "implied odds" hands in and if he is making this raise with such a hand himself he is playing a weak hand out of position against opponents that are hard to put in a box. In retrospect, you are probably right. He is "lighting the fuse" and setting up a HUGE pot.

    MX4, on the flop, I am also giving a big hand. This game is generally VERY aggressive. The fact that he flat called makes me suspicious that he has a big hand, and not a hand like Q-Ts. When he caps the betting I think he's got a big hand. I don't hate his play. He has a legitimate drawing hand in this pot. It is probably negative EV since it's hard to imagine that Q-Ts is an odds on favourite in this hand. Probably close, but he will have to finish with the best hand to win this pot.

    Note also that my read is allmost irrelevant. There is almost NO possibility of this hand not going to a showdown. So, regardless of my read, this hand becomes a game of math, pure and simple. Do I have the odds to continue?
    I love this play. Most players overlook the value of this play. I can't tell you how many pots I win when I miss completely and continue betting. Thing of beauty.

    In this case, I didn't think that there was anyway to win this hand without a showdown. But, with three players certain to call it's a pleasant +EV play. And, as it turns out it was a positive EV play. I was about 43% to win on the flop. Against two or more opponets, pound it in there.
  • moosemoose
    Can you explain why you value raise the flop but don't value raise the turn with the flush + OESD?
  • Dave ScharfDave Scharf
    On the flop I have two cards to come. I will hit my flush about 33% of the time. Against two opponents it's break even. Against three opponents the money going in NOW is profitable (this is not about the money already in the pot).

    On the turn with one care to come I have more outs, but only one chance. In this case, it hard to be certain that I am still getting enough outs to justify getting as much into the pot as possible. I clearly have the odds to call, but may or may not have the odds to actually drive more action.
  • ScoobyDScoobyD
    When you said you put the players on "big hands" I assume you meant a big overpair. Just curious as to whether you considered 3 betting the flop (initially) to try to drive out a hand like AJ or AK to pick up some potential overcard outs. Of course if you thought someone had an overpair, this is unlikely to work... I guess with the giant multiway action your thought might have been to keep the other players in the pot to improve the odds you're getting with your draw vs. blasting people out. These are the kind of marginal situations I'm always torn with...
  • Dave ScharfDave Scharf
    My simple thought on the flop was "I am going to have to hit my hand to win this." Thus, my first plan was "make it as cheap as possible." Only once I knew the number of foes continuing in the hand did capping it make sense.
  • moosemoose
    Dave Scharf wrote:
    On the flop I have two cards to come. I will hit my flush about 33% of the time. Against two opponents it's break even. Against three opponents the money going in NOW is profitable (this is not about the money already in the pot).

    On the turn with one care to come I have more outs, but only one chance. In this case, it hard to be certain that I am still getting enough outs to justify getting as much into the pot as possible. I clearly have the odds to call, but may or may not have the odds to actually drive more action.

    I just wondered if you had calculated it out exactly and if you were discounting the straight outs that completed the flush. Also I was wondering if a check raise on the turn would be representing that you had hit your set but in your other posts you mentioned that you would have to show down your cards to win so maybe a semi-bluff is of no use here. I'm just trying to learn how you think through a hand as it progresses...
  • Dave ScharfDave Scharf
    To be honest, after my initial raise I didn't give the hand much thought at all.

    Pre-flop I call on re-raise -- easliy enough odds to do so.
    Pre-flop I call another raise -- easily enough odds to do so.
    On the flop I call three bets with my flush draw and then cap it when I am sure that I have three opponents hooked.
    On the turn I call.
    On the river I bet and call.

    All of these plays are routine once I put in the very first raise pre-flop.

    I didn't bother with any thinking since in HUGE pots there is not much room for any fancy play. Simply resort to basic strategy.
  • MickeyHoldemMickeyHoldem
    Just how bad is BougieDog's play you ask... on the flop... vs. 4 random hands...

    Board: Td 6h 3h
    Dead:

    equity (%)
    Hand 1: 14.8 % { Ad8d }
    Hand 2: 21.3 % { random }
    Hand 3: 21.3 % { random }
    Hand 4: 21.3 % { random }
    Hand 5: 21.3 % { random }

    and he calls 2 cold.... OUCH!!!
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