Deepstack Hand for Analysis

Chugs

Early stages of a deep stack tourney on pokerstars


My Reads

kalibershanD has had some good hands in the early going, JJx2, QQ, 99 (raised all his hands) ... i'm the only one actually challenging him. He also tended to go dead and just call down if a board got scary (3 flush, overcards) ... but always called, so tight pre-flop and very passive after the flop.

pecheurs just moved to the table, no read


I'll explain the logic of each of my actions, and the results. Did i just play myself into this decision, is it a decision ... or almost automatic one way or the other.


PokerStars Game #3291970120: Tournament #16033440, Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2005/12/10 - 03:08:32 (ET)
Table '16033440 22' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: glavendaven (9525 in chips)
Seat 2: hopHip05 (3835 in chips)
Seat 3: BeavisChrist (4741 in chips)
Seat 4: razzu (12185 in chips)
Seat 5: kalibershanD (8615 in chips)
Seat 6: pecheurs (4395 in chips)
Seat 7: chugs (6464 in chips)
Seat 8: gutshot71 (5500 in chips)
Seat 9: DJ's acesN8s (5360 in chips)
kalibershanD: posts small blind 15
pecheurs: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chugs [Ks Kh]
chugs: calls 30
gutshot71: folds
DJ's acesN8s: folds
glavendaven: folds
hopHip05: calls 30
BeavisChrist: calls 30
razzu: folds
kalibershanD: raises 150 to 180
pecheurs: calls 150
chugs: raises 320 to 500
hopHip05: folds
BeavisChrist: folds
kalibershanD: calls 320
pecheurs: calls 320
*** FLOP *** [4h 8d Ts]
kalibershanD: bets 600
pecheurs: calls 600
chugs: raises 600 to 1200
kalibershanD: raises 6915 to 8115 and is all-in
pecheurs: calls 3295 and is all-in
chugs: ?

adammc

Number 1, why minimum raise? I hate doing this ever. Ever. It will not make an opponet fold, and regardless of how unscary this board is, KK 3 handed to the turn is not what you are looking to achieve.

Number 2, the blind levels are 15/30. It is a deepstack tournament. You have 6464 - 1700 = 5764 left to play in this EXTREMELY workable structure. The next blind level of 25/50 still gives you over 100 big blinds. Give one of them credit for a set and be done with the hand. You can find a far better spot than to get all in with KK against 2 players ALREADY all in on a raggy 10 high board. I would give kalibershanD definite credit for a set of 8s or 10s, maybe even aces which still beats you, as he potentially could have smooth called in his sb assuming the BB would fold to a utg limp re raise.

Anyways, sorry to run on, but an easy lay down I think.

SirWatts

I think you need to raise more preflop, with deep stacks you really need to make them pay to see a flop because their implied odds are so good against you. Pot it 600 more at least then go from there. As you played it I'd have made it 1800 on the flop but on that rainbow board it's way too likely that someone has a set when they both get all-in in front of you so I think you have a not too difficult laydown. kaliber might have QQ or something actually but it's hard to put pecheurs on anything but a set if he's a decent player.

Hork42

Like has already been said before: Raise more preflop. Raise more on the flop. Min raises won't get them to fold most of the time.
Once both are allin the flop, I think you have to let the hand go. Is your 1 overpair hand good enough to call? You have plenty of chips to play in future hands. Later in the tournament, shortstacked, or a tournament with a more aggressive blinds schedule, you might be able to make this call to give you good odds on your chips. But not now.

MickeyHoldem

Just a note... you limp/re-raise pre-flop... then min-raise the flop... I think you have defined your hand very well to anyone who cares.

FOLD

Chugs

Okay most people are of the consensus that i should fold, at the indicated point.

Most people indicated that the min raise on the flop was poor play, because it wasn't going to get anyone to fold. Now what if i told you i didn't expect it to get anyone to fold. I did it to re-open betting so that i could get more information. I wasn't sure if my hand was best, i understand some people would say i was looking for monsters under the bed, but i needed more comfort. I felt that bet was the cheapest way to try and figure out if my hand was best, something the resulting all-in and then called all-in made me doubt.


So if you want to avoid being pot committed, what would you do on the flop to give yourself the information you need and ideally as cheaply as possible. IF the min-raise isn't right, what is.

specialK

I think the preflop raise was not enough, make it 750-850 to go. I don't like the limp/raise play UTG with KK on stars, I think you need to lead out in this spot, making it 75 to go... that way you can get information about your opponents hands preflop (based on whether they raise or smooth call) I think by limp-raising you are giving them the information they need to define your hand. So they should have you on KK or AA and they are still going all in on that board... one of them has a set, easy fold in my mind.

Dave Scharf

Without peeking...

kalibershanD has had some good hands in the early going, JJx2, QQ, 99 (raised all his hands) ... i'm the only one actually challenging him. He also tended to go dead and just call down if a board got scary (3 flush, overcards) ... but always called, so tight pre-flop and very passive after the flop.

Weapon to deploy: Acquire the best hand cheaply and get paid off. He will not lay down top pair. If he can get a hand that beat top pair we will double through. Do not bluff.

pecheurs just moved to the table, no read

PokerStars Game #3291970120: Tournament #16033440, Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2005/12/10 - 03:08:32 (ET)
Table '16033440 22' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: glavendaven (9525 in chips)
Seat 2: hopHip05 (3835 in chips)
Seat 3: BeavisChrist (4741 in chips)
Seat 4: razzu (12185 in chips)
Seat 5: kalibershanD (8615 in chips)
Seat 6: pecheurs (4395 in chips)
Seat 7: chugs (6464 in chips)
Seat 8: gutshot71 (5500 in chips)
Seat 9: DJ's acesN8s (5360 in chips)
kalibershanD: posts small blind 15
pecheurs: posts big blind 30

Deep chips. Time for the best players to shine.

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chugs [Ks Kh]
chugs: calls 30

I think UTG call is fine. Looking to win some $$$ with these cowboys.

gutshot71: folds
DJ's acesN8s: folds
glavendaven: folds
hopHip05: calls 30
BeavisChrist: calls 30
razzu: folds
kalibershanD: raises 150 to 180
pecheurs: calls 150
chugs: raises 320 to 500
hopHip05: folds
BeavisChrist: folds
kalibershanD: calls 320
pecheurs: calls 320

Got your wish, someone raised. Two call your re-raise. pecheurs is a mystery. I will give them each a pocket pair or A-K. These appear the most likely holdings to me. You raise was substantial and you have made the "new classic play" for A-A or K-K UTG.

*** FLOP *** [4h 8d Ts]
kalibershanD: bets 600
pecheurs: calls 600
chugs: raises 600 to 1200
kalibershanD: raises 6915 to 8115 and is all-in
pecheurs: calls 3295 and is all-in
chugs: ?

Tough one.

I fold.

You have represented K-K or A-A which is, in fact, what you have. So, if yoru opponents are at all savvy they are putting you on your precise hand.

kali's huge re-raise is pretty well enough to fold. You have described him as "very passive" post flop. A very passive player is moving in on you. AAALLLLAAARRRMMMMM. The call? I am not too concerned about the call. It is probably and overpair like J-J, a set, or a big draw any of which you woudl be happy to call. But... kali's bet is giant.

Dave Scharf

IF the min-raise isn't right, what is.

Contrary to others, I like your min raise here. You got what you wanted (more info) for as little money as possible.