Just moved up to $1/$2 - How did I play these?

Big E

Hand #1, got to watch a few hands waiting for a seat and then the BB to come around, read on FNORD is that he is very aggressive, raising a lot on mediocre or poor hands in late position.

Stage #242303268: Holdem Normal $1/$2 - 2005-12-07 23:37:09 (ET)
Table: EL RANCHO AVE (Real Money) Seat #7 is the dealer
Seat 7 - FN0RD ($102.31 in chips)
Seat 8 - MIKED05 ($27.25 in chips)
Seat 9 - BIGGESTE ($50 in chips)
Seat 1 - BATORY ($30 in chips)
Seat 2 - ONDAATJE ($2.25 in chips)
Seat 3 - ZIZNACK ($21 in chips)
Seat 4 - SOUTHERNBORN ($44.50 in chips)
Seat 6 - REDCARDDADDY ($51.25 in chips)
MIKED05 - Posts small blind $0.50
BIGGESTE - Posts big blind $1
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to BIGGESTE [5d 9d]
BATORY - Folds
ONDAATJE - Folds
ZIZNACK - Folds
SOUTHERNBORN - Folds
REDCARDDADDY - Folds
FN0RD - Raises $2 to $2
MIKED05 - Calls $1.50
BIGGESTE - Calls $1 - normally I would dump this to a raise but I think FNORD is trying to steal and I don't think I defend enough...but was this really a wise decision or did I get lucky?
*** FLOP *** [3d 2c 3s]
MIKED05 - Checks
BIGGESTE - Checks
FN0RD - Bets $1
MIKED05 - Folds
BIGGESTE - Calls $1 - If a :d: or something else good does not come I dump on the turn
*** TURN *** [3d 2c 3s] [9h]
BIGGESTE - Checks
FN0RD - Bets $2
BIGGESTE - Raises $4 to $4 - voila, I know I'm good now!
FN0RD - Calls $2
*** RIVER *** [3d 2c 3s 9h] [9c]
BIGGESTE - Bets $2
FN0RD - Calls $2
*** SHOW DOWN ***
BIGGESTE - Shows [5d 9d] (Full house, nines full of threes)
FN0RD - Mucks
BIGGESTE Collects $19 from main pot

Everyone posts the bad beats, here is a sweet hand I think I played well...but did I get all I was going to get out of it, being limit I think I did. I think one of my leaks is that I am not aggressive enough with quality hands. A few weeks ago I would have called his pre-flop raise instead of raising...pfff scaredy cat syndrome...now I'm starting to feel comfortable re-raising. This doesn't happen often so I just wanted to gloat!

Stage #242305769: Holdem Normal $1/$2 - 2005-12-07 23:40:27 (ET)
Table: EL RANCHO AVE (Real Money) Seat #1 is the dealer
Seat 1 - BATORY ($39.75 in chips)
Seat 2 - ONDAATJE ($1.25 in chips)
Seat 3 - ZIZNACK ($18 in chips)
Seat 4 - SOUTHERNBORN ($44.50 in chips)
Seat 5 - JDSTRAYT ($50 in chips)
Seat 6 - REDCARDDADDY ($51.25 in chips)
Seat 7 - FN0RD ($93.31 in chips)
Seat 8 - MIKED05 ($19.25 in chips)
Seat 9 - BIGGESTE ($59.50 in chips)
ONDAATJE - Posts small blind $0.50
ZIZNACK - Posts big blind $1
JDSTRAYT - sitout (wait for BB)
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to BIGGESTE [10s 10c]
SOUTHERNBORN - Folds
REDCARDDADDY - Folds
FN0RD - Folds
MIKED05 - Folds
BIGGESTE - Raises $2 to $2
BATORY - Raises $3 to $3
ONDAATJE - All-In $0.75
ZIZNACK - Folds
BIGGESTE - Raises $2 to $4
BATORY - Calls $1
*** FLOP *** [10h 4c 10d]
BIGGESTE - Bets $1
BATORY - Calls $1
*** TURN *** [10h 4c 10d] [7s]
BIGGESTE - Bets $2
BATORY - Calls $2
*** RIVER *** [10h 4c 10d 7s] [As]
BIGGESTE - Bets $2
BATORY - Folds
BIGGESTE - returned ($2) : not called
*** SHOW DOWN ***
BIGGESTE - Shows [10s 10c] (Four of a kind, tens)
ONDAATJE - Mucks
BIGGESTE Collects $11 from side pot-1
BIGGESTE Collects $4.50 from main pot


Needless to say, it was a profitable night!

GTA Poker

Big E wrote:

Hand #1, got to watch a few hands waiting for a seat and then the BB to come around, read on FNORD is that he is very aggressive, raising a lot on mediocre or poor hands in late position.

Stage #242303268: Holdem Normal $1/$2 - 2005-12-07 23:37:09 (ET)
Table: EL RANCHO AVE (Real Money) Seat #7 is the dealer
Seat 7 - FN0RD ($102.31 in chips)
Seat 8 - MIKED05 ($27.25 in chips)
Seat 9 - BIGGESTE ($50 in chips)
Seat 1 - BATORY ($30 in chips)
Seat 2 - ONDAATJE ($2.25 in chips)
Seat 3 - ZIZNACK ($21 in chips)
Seat 4 - SOUTHERNBORN ($44.50 in chips)
Seat 6 - REDCARDDADDY ($51.25 in chips)
MIKED05 - Posts small blind $0.50
BIGGESTE - Posts big blind $1
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to BIGGESTE [5d 9d]
BATORY - Folds
ONDAATJE - Folds
ZIZNACK - Folds
SOUTHERNBORN - Folds
REDCARDDADDY - Folds
FN0RD - Raises $2 to $2
MIKED05 - Calls $1.50
BIGGESTE - Calls $1 - normally I would dump this to a raise but I think FNORD is trying to steal and I don't think I defend enough...but was this really a wise decision or did I get lucky?
*** FLOP *** [3d 2c 3s]
MIKED05 - Checks
BIGGESTE - Checks
FN0RD - Bets $1
MIKED05 - Folds
BIGGESTE - Calls $1 - If a :d: or something else good does not come I dump on the turn
*** TURN *** [3d 2c 3s] [9h]
BIGGESTE - Checks
FN0RD - Bets $2
BIGGESTE - Raises $4 to $4 - voila, I know I'm good now!
FN0RD - Calls $2
*** RIVER *** [3d 2c 3s 9h] [9c]
BIGGESTE - Bets $2
FN0RD - Calls $2
*** SHOW DOWN ***
BIGGESTE - Shows [5d 9d] (Full house, nines full of threes)
FN0RD - Mucks
BIGGESTE Collects $19 from main pot

Everyone posts the bad beats, here is a sweet hand I think I played well...but did I get all I was going to get out of it, being limit I think I did. I think one of my leaks is that I am not aggressive enough with quality hands. A few weeks ago I would have called his pre-flop raise instead of raising...pfff scaredy cat syndrome...now I'm starting to feel comfortable re-raising. This doesn't happen often so I just wanted to gloat!

In higher limits if I can outplay the raiser I reraise here if I want to defend, but calling with suited cards isn't the worst play you can make -- HOWEVER, at lowwww limits like 1/2 it is best just to play your cards for profit, hardly any players are concerned about any table image.

Folding is the winning play preflop at 1/2, calling is a money loser.

The flop -- obviously you are only playing your cards here and not making any moves from your statements, you have 6 outs to a made hand if your read is right and only 1 card to make it as you said you'd dump otherwise that's like a 7.5:1 shot ... if you think he'll pay you off with the best hand then nice call.... calling to pick up a draw heads up is an atrocious leak.

You need to play your cards, period, at 1/2 , you got lucky here but I can't say you played this hand well.

Even a fish constantly raising in low limit can pick up a big pair, overall most every street was a money losing play.

magithighs

If this is the same Fnord, I can't believe Fnord is still playing 1/2.  I played with him about 3 years ago on stars or paradise (or both).

I  think one of the most difficult spots for players moving up in limits is blind defence.  I would highly recommend playing the five handed/six handed games to really develop this skill.  The crummy part is that there isn't much difference in results when defending well and/or not defending.  For the longest time, I would not defend unless I had a hand I would play in late position -- I don't think I lost much EV because of this.

I think you defended your blind well.  If I'm going to defend, I don't factor in much for the suitedness of my cards -- it's only a 5% advantage over an unsuited 95.  It's not a huge factor when you're getting 3.5 to 1 to call.

Some added options I like to toss in my mix allow me to win the pot without hitting -- lay claim to crappy flops like the one you played.  Bet that flop, or check raise it.  Another option is to re-raise pre-flop.  Again, you're betting that fnord misses the flop.  And that happens about 60% of the time.  Aggression is the key to blind defense, unless you're defeding against a wacho.  Then you just give him the rope.  If fnord is a wacho (he was when I played him -- he'd be normal, take a bad beat and then go to the wacho state), I would bet into him at the turn, figuring he will raise and I can make it three bets.  If I have bottom pair, I just call it down with a wacho.

Great to see you're betting your quads --  my frist quads I  didn't bet and didnt get a single bite.  It's hard to make money because the board is crippled.  But, if you have a live one, they won't figure you're on quads when you're betting out -- they then pay off nicely.

Cheers
Magi

Big E

Thanks for the comments, much appreciated.

It is easy to think you played a hand well when you win it...sometimes you make a suspect call and get lucky...hand 1 could fit in that scenario. However I think in the BB it's justified to call a bet with two suited cards. I think my post flop play is suspect and I got lucky with the turn card. Like you both pointed out perhaps I should raise or fold post flop but calling is a long term loser.
It was nice to have someone come along with me on the quads.

As an aside here Fnord's agression level completely died off after that first hand which did allow me to limp into some hands later with small-mid pairs, and other hands I'd have folded to a raise, of which a few hands I hit and won some pots. I can't help thinking that defending that hand made him think more about trying to steal (if in fact he was trying to steal)......although at $1/2 perhaps it had nothing to do with it and I'm blowing smoke out of my ass?

magithighs

Just for the record, I don't think calling pre-flop is a suspect call.  You played it fine.  I like to have variety in my plays and was adding other things to think about.  Again, I would highly recommend playing 5 handed if you want  to sharpen this part of your game.

Also, i don't think you're blowing smoke out of your ass, in that Fnord got an impression of your play (ie you had some image) and adjusted.  Just think how many players are at this level, who are in the same boat as you.  Beanie was  playing, and there are others like you are playing this level.  This type of player is not common, but can be found in most games.  And, they notice things.  You're  not playing bots -- at all levels you're playing players with emotions, thoughts and idiosyncrasies.  Just don't get into Fancy Play Syndrome where  you're giving players too much credit.

Cheers
Magi

Big E

Thanks Lou, your comments are always appreciated!

Glad to have you back!

SirWatts

Getting 5:1 immediate odds I think calling with the 59s is correct, I would drop it if the SB wasn't in though.

stpboy

Big E wrote:

Dealt to BIGGESTE [5d 9d]
BIGGESTE - Shows [5d 9d] (Full house, nines full of threes)

59s rules! Hoping Mark reads this.