Negreanu an angle shooter?
I'm referring to one thing he did in the Party Poker Million limit tourney, and the only reason I'm bringing it up is because in the previous column of his I read he told people not to ruin their reputations by being angle shooters. So he was in a hand with a novice, raised preflop, missed the flop, made continuation bets on the flop and turn, and then the river made a straight on the board. He bet, hoping the novice would misread his hand and fold, but he called. Then Daniel said he knew it was a split pot, but that back in Toronto he would sometimes declare his hand in such a situation with confidence to make his opponent muck what would have been a split. So he did that here, the guy thought for a second and then mucked.
Anyone else think that this was not exactly the most ethical thing to do? He justified himself by saying that he didn't do anything to misrepresent his hand, but he previously said that by calling it out with confidence he'd gotten guys to muck. To me this does sound like a misrepresentation. The articles here if you want to read it. http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/daniel/poker-articles/2004-poker-articles.php?subaction=showfull&id=1118104475&archive=&start_from=&ucat=4&
Anyone else think that this was not exactly the most ethical thing to do? He justified himself by saying that he didn't do anything to misrepresent his hand, but he previously said that by calling it out with confidence he'd gotten guys to muck. To me this does sound like a misrepresentation. The articles here if you want to read it. http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/daniel/poker-articles/2004-poker-articles.php?subaction=showfull&id=1118104475&archive=&start_from=&ucat=4&
Comments
I think that there is nothing wrong with this as long as (as the article indicates) the cards are shown either before, or nearly simultaneous with, the verbal declaration.
You are under no obligation to help your opponent read his (or anyone's) hand correctly.
ScottyZ
I agree misrepresenting his hand would be sketchy. But making a bet on the river is completely within the lines.
You'd just piss off the rest of the table.
Hobbes
Sorry Flint, but disagree here. Once both hands are turned over, the cards read themselves. If someone misreads and mucks, too bad. But if you turn it up, the dealer should award to the winning hand (even if the player doesn't see it). In a friendly home game, I would point out the winner, and have lost hands when this was done to me, but I think that's the correct thing to do. I think 2 face up hands is a bit different than someone mucking due to ignorance.
Right, but this is part of the dealer's responsibility. If a player turns a hand face up without mucking it, the cards speak, no matter what the player thinks the hand is. If the dealer does not bring it up, then he is not doing his job.
I guess I speak from a few times where I knew the guy was bluffing and re-raised him and he called saying he had nothing, only to show a straight once and a flush the second time. It drove me mad. I knew he had nothing (well at least I knew he thought he had nothing).
You have no right to say or do anything that could affect the outcome of the hand. Until the idiot turns his cards over or mucks them, you should not say or do anything.
Agreed. I went back and read the original post and saw that idiot had mucked. Reminds me of the story of TJ Clouthier (i think it was him) who said he had once bet into an opponent who had a habit of always looking down when involved in a hand. After he bet his cards got accidentally mucked but his opponent didn't realize it because he was looking down. He just put his hands down on the table in a fashion that looked like he was covering his cards. His opponent mucked, oblvious to the whole thing and TJ took the pot. Everyone at the table just kept their mouth shut knowing what had happened. Whether or not it is a true story I have no idea, but it reminded me of that.