Rulings questions
The more you run tournaments, the more odd situations you see. Here are three from the Bristol Street Finals (and one from a side game that same day) How would you rule in each of the situations...
1) Player A is in the Big Blind and has not looked at his cards yet. Player B in middle position mucks his cards, one of them slides into the hold cards of Player A without anyone noticing. Player A goes to act and without looking at the card values notices that he has three. He discards the top card, leaving himself with two. Should his hand be declared dead?
2) Player A and B in a pot. Player C dealing. Before action is finished on the turn, the dealer has burned and turn the river AND collected the muck into the undealt cards. Action finishes on turn betting and both players say they didn't see the river card be dealt. Does the river card stand and the final round of betting begin, or should a replacement card be drawn and, if so, how should this be handled?
3) (I believe I have the situation described correctly here) Player A is in a pot with Player B who is also the dealer. On the turn or river, Player B placed the burn card into his hole cards. River betting is completed, Player B declares "pocket Aces", which causes Player A to muck. Player B then turns over his cards (of which there are now three.. two Aces plus the burn card) Who gets the pot? Player A because Player B has an illegal hand or Player B because Player A mucked? Or, should the pot be split because both hands are dead?
Thanks!
1) Player A is in the Big Blind and has not looked at his cards yet. Player B in middle position mucks his cards, one of them slides into the hold cards of Player A without anyone noticing. Player A goes to act and without looking at the card values notices that he has three. He discards the top card, leaving himself with two. Should his hand be declared dead?
2) Player A and B in a pot. Player C dealing. Before action is finished on the turn, the dealer has burned and turn the river AND collected the muck into the undealt cards. Action finishes on turn betting and both players say they didn't see the river card be dealt. Does the river card stand and the final round of betting begin, or should a replacement card be drawn and, if so, how should this be handled?
3) (I believe I have the situation described correctly here) Player A is in a pot with Player B who is also the dealer. On the turn or river, Player B placed the burn card into his hole cards. River betting is completed, Player B declares "pocket Aces", which causes Player A to muck. Player B then turns over his cards (of which there are now three.. two Aces plus the burn card) Who gets the pot? Player A because Player B has an illegal hand or Player B because Player A mucked? Or, should the pot be split because both hands are dead?
Thanks!
Comments
1) dead hand - protect them cardz
2) reinsert the river card and redraw
3) dealer killed his hand by mucking onto it, but other player mucked too... split the pot.
2) Redeal the river the fairest way left.. If all the cards have been re-collected, then thats what you've gotta deal from. You can't leave the river because while the first guy may be telling the truth, the second could be angle shooting. Make sure you put the river card back in the deck.
3) I'd split the pot.
I think the actual ruling is probably a reshuffle and deal, however, I'm fine with how this worked out.
Mark
P.S. Pinhead: In case you'd forgotten, or if we never said, you weren't making any more off of me that hand.. I had top 2 pair, and when a straight and a flush possibility hit, well, I was done with it...
2) Re shuffle the river.
3) This is where I would take the dealer's word. He said pocket aces and there were pocket aces. However, it is a home game in a friendly environment. If this was elsewhere the hand would be dead and the pot would be split.
I think the moral of #1 and #3 is to protect your cards.
2. Shuffle all the cards in the pile and redeal the river.
3. Friendly home game, no one is there to cheat each other money. Since the dealer said he had pocket aces before flipping up the cards, I would take his word for it. However, I would think if the dealer offer to split the pot might be the "ethical" thing to do.
From yourself??!??!?
Actually, I've seen three times where the dealer mucks his own hand into the muck without realizing it. You're you own worst enemy when dealing.
2. Redeal with all cards in the muck, including the river card
3. Tough spot, so many things went wrong. Most reasonable is to split the pot but the dealer definitely has a responsibility (and assuming you're dealing with historic rules, where the button is the dealer, dealing properly is sort of a requirement of the benefit of the button i guess). Home game chop it, playing for lots of cash money, i say the dealer mucked.
Indeed. Always watch your cards. As Rob said, this happens more than you'd think.