How do I maximize value?

SirWatts

I feel like a donk slowplaying this hand, was there a better way? Also given that i did not expect a limp reraise is the cold call preflop fine? The original raiser was a TAG.

***** Hand History for Game 3138717125 *****
$5/$10 Texas Hold'em - Saturday, December 03, 17:01:38 EDT 2005
Table Table 64702 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: DSchreck ( $351.50 )
Seat 2: KramerTM ( $465.17 )
Seat 3: Lonnew ( $206.66 )
Seat 4: vrock951 ( $103.50 )
Seat 5: miistermiagi ( $214 )
Seat 7: yanji1980 ( $9.24 )
Seat 9: VicVaselino ( $432 )
Seat 10: BRUCELEE1232 ( $337.75 )
Seat 6: SirWatts ( $432.50 )
Seat 8: greenp111 ( $119.67 )
greenp111 posts small blind [$2].
VicVaselino posts big blind [$5].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SirWatts [ Jh Kh ]
2 folds
KramerTM calls [$5].
Lonnew calls [$5].
vrock951 calls [$5].
miistermiagi raises [$10].
SirWatts calls [$10].
yanji1980 folds.
greenp111 calls [$8].
VicVaselino calls [$5].
KramerTM raises [$10].
Lonnew calls [$10].
vrock951 calls [$10].
miistermiagi raises [$10].
SirWatts calls [$10].
greenp111 calls [$10].
VicVaselino calls [$10].
KramerTM calls [$5].
Lonnew calls [$5].
vrock951 calls [$5].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Js, 4s, Jd ]
greenp111 checks.
VicVaselino checks.
KramerTM bets [$5].
Lonnew calls [$5].
vrock951 folds.
miistermiagi raises [$10].
SirWatts calls [$10].
greenp111 calls [$10].
VicVaselino folds.
KramerTM calls [$5].
Lonnew calls [$5].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4h ]
greenp111 checks.
KramerTM checks.
Lonnew checks.
miistermiagi bets [$10].
SirWatts calls [$10].
greenp111 folds.
KramerTM calls [$10].
Lonnew folds.
** Dealing River ** [ 3s ]
KramerTM bets [$10].
miistermiagi calls [$10].
SirWatts raises [$20].
KramerTM calls [$10].
miistermiagi folds.

BBC Z

Well played.

Tilter

Wow, Can't believe you got a guy to call down with a flush draw (am I right?). And call on a duo paired board..yikes!

BBC Z

Tilter wrote:

Wow, Can't believe you got a guy to call down with a flush draw (am I right?). And call on a duo paired board..yikes!

I'll say showdown was two pocket pairs. Aces and Queens, given the cap by Miagi and the limp re-reaise from Kramer.

SirWatts

Nah no one ever has anything when they limp reraise. Kramer had QT spades and miagi folded, though by his play of the hand he clearly had a big pair and made a tough fold on the end.

PokerKai

why arent you fast playing your hand?

the pot is already big, theres no need for deception. your against players that LIKE their hands, get moving. you didnt even give people a chance to overplay their hands or the possible flush draw the maximum to get there. way too cute imo

BBC Z

PokerKai wrote:

why arent you fast playing your hand?

the pot is already big, theres no need for deception. your against players that LIKE their hands, get moving. you didnt even give people a chance to overplay their hands or the possible flush draw the maximum to get there. way too cute imo

Explain where you raise so that you don't knock out the players behind you by forcing them to call two or more bets cold? For every player you lose on the flop or the turn you need to make up like 3-4 bets from the remaining players. Explain in detail your plan to do that.

I must say, I'm actually starting to get frustrated around here.

ScoobyD

I think I'd be along Kai's line of fast playing if it was B&M 5-10 since so many donks will call down with ANY pocket pair in that spot. I'd assume that online 5-10 that people might be able to get away from a hand like 22 in this spot, so I don't see where you can raise that you don't blow out the field. The flop is already 2 bets in front and you don't really want to lose anyone behind you (you'd get the extra bet from a flush draw and likely a big pair). The turn now has the situation that any flush draw should get out, especially if it's 2 bets to them, so there's no need to push these guys out. Basically they can call and hope they're up against an overpair and not a boat. Against opponents that have half a brain, I don't see a better way to play it (unless you have a reckless image, in which case 3 betting the flop might be OK).

PokerKai

BBC Z wrote:

PokerKai wrote:

why arent you fast playing your hand?

the pot is already big, theres no need for deception. your against players that LIKE their hands, get moving. you didnt even give people a chance to overplay their hands or the possible flush draw the maximum to get there. way too cute imo

Explain where you raise so that you don't knock out the players behind you by forcing them to call two or more bets cold? For every player you lose on the flop or the turn you need to make up like 3-4 bets from the remaining players. Explain in detail your plan to do that.

I must say, I'm actually starting to get frustrated around here.

Im going to say this clearly and unequivocally so that there can be no mistaking my position.
You want people to fold

7 people seeing the flop for 4 bets each. Thats 28SB. By simply coldcalling the flop, you are giving everybody, at worst, 17 to 1. That means ANYBODY with 5% equity in this pot is correct in calling. What is 5% equity in this pot? 56 of diamonds has enough equity to call! Anybody with a pocket pair and a spade is getting MORE then enough to call. We gain in poker by making our opponents make mistakes. And yet we are allowing them the proper price to draw on our hand.

The turn is even worse...on the turn, we are giving people 21 to 1 on a call. Once again, we are allowing Kramer and Mistermagi proper odds to draw to their likely overpairs.

I understand you people are concerned with getting value for your hand, but your not gaining by slowplaying this hand. The pot is sooooo big, we can expect very few people to be able to get away from their hands. And in fact, they would be wrong to do so if they hold as little as a runner runner flush or a pocket pair!

This is JUST like flopping TPTK and just smooth calling the flop to keep people in. We may have a good hand, but allowing people the proper price to continue is clearly wrong.

SirWatts

Yeah Kai is right I'm giving people the right odds to try to hit a set on me as well as other wacky draws and that's a mistake here. I thought this might have been the case thinking back about this hand but i didn't realize the pot was as big as it acually was and I forgot to check it. The turn is maybe not so bad because I get extra value from the flush draw, but the flop I should 3-bet to clear out pocket pairs and other wackiness probably. Can't say I've had that situation come up in a while at 5/10.

PokerKai

SirWatts wrote:

The turn is maybe not so bad because I get extra value from the flush draw

Well look at it this way. We are likely dealing with two hands on the turn. Overpair and flush draw.
IF we smooth call, we allow the overpair proper odds to draw and the flush draw a chance to make a mistake with some regularity.
IF we raise, we make it improper for the overpair to draw, and offer the flush draw a chance to make a bigger mistake with less regularity.

By calling, we only allow one type of opponenet to make a mistake, while allowing the other to act correctly.
By raising, we make it possible for both of our opponents to make mistakes.