LL Leaks

This is just more of a musing of my PT stats than anything, but I'm wondering how much this leak (which I believe it is) is affecting my winrate. While trying to identify hands that I play too much that tend to show a negative win rate, I quickly identify hands which I KNOW are trouble, yet still find myself wondering how I'm losing as much as I am with them. The three hands which jump out for me are KJo, QTo, KTo. Offsuit gapped highcards. Basically top pair questionable kicker hands with little drawing potential. I obviously don't play these hands period in EP, and am never cold calling. Yet I do find I play them on occaision in MP, and I'm playing them fairly frequently (over half the time) in LP with no raise in front. I'm thinking this is too much, and probably should be more inclined to play a middle suited one-gap (like 97s, 86s, etc.) in LP then these junk hands. I'm thinking I need to completely eliminate playing these hands in MP, and playing them only possibly on the button or CO if I'm the first in the pot with a raise vs. tight blinds, as well as limping them in the SB. I had already thought I was playing pretty tight poker (VPIP slightly less than 18%), but apparently I still have a ways to go. I don't want to become a rock, but at the same time cleaning up my pf tendencies seems to be the easiest way to "cure" me of the problem. Of course, the other conceivable cause of this problem is that I'm playing all of these hands poorly post-flop, but that will require some time to go through the hands in question. Curious to hear others thoughts...

Comments

  • I think you should always fold these hands in MP. They really need to be suited to be worth playing. In late position limp in with these hands if there are limpers before you. If I hit the flop with top pair I bet if its checked around to me or raise. Too many people will bet top pairs with worse kickers than yours and I've seen people even bet into a field with mid and even bottom pairs. Raising lets you proect your hand by forcing people to fold or pay a lot to draw to their crappy two pair. Also, if I'm getting called to the river by one or two people and I think I may be behind with my kicker I'll check and take the free showdown (I've also seen AK limp preflop, hit top pair, and then check and call to the river). Preflop, if its folded to you in the cutoff or button, raise to try and steal the blinds.
  • I quickly identify hands which I KNOW are trouble, yet still find myself wondering how I'm losing as much as I am with them.

    Your solution is to play them based on the PLAYERS downstream instead of your position relative to the button. QTo is great against some LPPs who play any two. It's trash with 4 rocks left to act <unless you wanna steal and they're TPP>.
    I had already thought I was playing pretty tight poker (VPIP slightly less than 18%)

    You are too tight as it is! Assuming general LL table chaos it should be around 20%-22%..
    I think you should always fold these hands in MP.

    YAWN.

    You need to look up from your cards, there's 9 other players at the table who want to donate thier money to you. Strict chart-based hand selection SUCKS.
  • I woiuld never limp with these in LP, raise or fold depending on multiple factors, its not just the cards after all.
  • Your solution is to play them based on the PLAYERS downstream instead of your position relative to the button. QTo is great against some LPPs who play any two. It's trash with 4 rocks left to act <unless you wanna steal and they're TPP>.

    I actually thought in the reverse direction (ie. upstream). These type of high-card hands are decent vs. LPPs who have already limped. If a rock has already limped in EP, I shouldn't be thinking of limping behind.
    You are too tight as it is! Assuming general LL table chaos it should be around 20%-22%..

    I think the question might be how often I'm playing typical LL table chaos (Where I'd probably be open limping any pair and most suited aces in EP). Whoring bonuses on slightly tighter sites will have some affect on how many hands I play. Maybe the bigger issue here is table selection...

    As far as chart based hand selection, I don't use a chart. I vaguely remember some starting hand guides in Jones and Miller, but I can't remember all the details. I tend to adjust my play based on the table conditions, but have a rough idea of what I want to play based on opponents, position.
  • I actually thought in the reverse direction (ie. upstream).

    Those are the players you have position on. The ones downstream are far more interesting.
    I tend to adjust my play based on the table conditions, but have a rough idea of what I want to play based on opponents, position.

    If thats true, I fail to understand your question. The point of my response is that it's not a position thing, it's a player thing.
  • WHy the eye patch?
  • Chick magnet.
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