Would Anybody smooth call???

wader

Sunday $200
Seat 3 loose as a goose
Would anybody smooth call based on villans playing style?


*********** # 186 **************
> PokerStars Game #2991097711: Tournament #14113646, Hold'em No Limit -
> Level XI (600/1200) - 2005/11/06 - 19:17:11 (ET)
> Table '14113646 53' Seat #6 is the button
> Seat 1: sasha777 (19427 in chips)
> Seat 2: jomamusfat (34809 in chips)
> Seat 3: Bumpasaurus (11065 in chips)
> Seat 4: msclick (57463 in chips)
> Seat 5: L.O.G.I.C.O (7490 in chips)
> Seat 6: W4LLY (9830 in chips)
> Seat 7: wader (17215 in chips)
> Seat 8: jimmym (10288 in chips)
> Seat 9: KidKGB (17192 in chips)
> sasha777: posts the ante 75
> jomamusfat: posts the ante 75
> Bumpasaurus: posts the ante 75
> msclick: posts the ante 75
> L.O.G.I.C.O: posts the ante 75
> W4LLY: posts the ante 75
> wader: posts the ante 75
> jimmym: posts the ante 75
> KidKGB: posts the ante 75
> wader: posts small blind 600
> jimmym: posts big blind 1200
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to wader [Th Ts]
> KidKGB said, "lol"
> KidKGB: folds
> sasha777: folds
> jomamusfat: folds
> KidKGB said, "me = super donk"
> Captmidnight [observer] said, "lol"
> Bumpasaurus: raises 2400 to 3600
> msclick: folds
> L.O.G.I.C.O: folds
> W4LLY: folds
> Captmidnight [observer] said, "since you havent p'd me off, i would post
> my notes on you, kgb"
> wader: raises 13540 to 17140 and is all-in
> jimmym: folds
> Bumpasaurus: calls 7390 and is all-in
> Captmidnight [observer] said, "i mean, i won't"
> KidKGB said, "lol what is that supposed to mean?"
> *** FLOP *** [Qs Kh 7d]
> Captmidnight [observer] said, "typo"
> *** TURN *** [Qs Kh 7d] [9c]
> *** RIVER *** [Qs Kh 7d 9c] [6s]
> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> wader: shows [Th Ts] (a pair of Tens)
> Bumpasaurus: shows [Qh Ks] (two pair, Kings and Queens)
> Bumpasaurus collected 23855 from pot
> *** SUMMARY ***
> Total pot 23855 | Rake 0
> Board [Qs Kh 7d 9c 6s]
> Seat 1: sasha777 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
> Seat 2: jomamusfat folded before Flop (didn't bet)
> Seat 3: Bumpasaurus showed [Qh Ks] and won (23855) with two pair, Kings
> and Queens
> Seat 4: msclick folded before Flop (didn't bet)
> Seat 5: L.O.G.I.C.O folded before Flop (didn't bet)
> Seat 6: W4LLY (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
> Seat 7: wader (small blind) showed [Th Ts] and lost with a pair of Tens
> Seat 8: jimmym (big blind) folded before Flop
> Seat 9: KidKGB folded before Flop (didn't bet)



I did this play on seat 3 a couple orbits earlier and he might be thinking Im just pushing him around ?????
Reasoning: Seat 3 has been raising to much preflop and stealing blinds a lot, seat 6 just calls his raise, i felt that if seat 6 had a hand he would push in this spot. I risked 4800 to win 6750.I rarely do this play but it just felt right.


*********** # 162 **************
> PokerStars Game #2990919356: Tournament #14113646, Hold'em No Limit -
> Level IX (300/600) - 2005/11/06 - 18:57:07 (ET)
> Table '14113646 53' Seat #7 is the button
> Seat 1: tylerbills (5850 in chips)
> Seat 2: jomamusfat (30609 in chips)
> Seat 3: Bumpasaurus (16090 in chips)
> Seat 4: scottu74 (7905 in chips)
> Seat 5: L.O.G.I.C.O (7865 in chips)
> Seat 6: zach65 (7599 in chips)
> Seat 7: wader (12145 in chips)
> Seat 8: jimmym (11863 in chips)
> Seat 9: KidKGB (13262 in chips)
> tylerbills: posts the ante 50
> jomamusfat: posts the ante 50
> Bumpasaurus: posts the ante 50
> scottu74: posts the ante 50
> L.O.G.I.C.O: posts the ante 50
> zach65: posts the ante 50
> wader: posts the ante 50
> jimmym: posts the ante 50
> KidKGB: posts the ante 50
> jimmym: posts small blind 300
> KidKGB: posts big blind 600
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to wader [5d 7d]
> tylerbills: folds
> jomamusfat: folds
> Bumpasaurus: raises 1200 to 1800
> scottu74: folds
> L.O.G.I.C.O: folds
> zach65: calls 1800
> jomamusfat said, "give me some respect"
> scottu74 said, "so what you want us to think you have the nuts everytime?"
> wader: raises 3000 to 4800
> jomamusfat said, "i had the nuts the last 3 times"
> scottu74 said, "i see why you have that pic now"
> jomamusfat said, "AA, and flo comes ak2 isnt that the nuts"
> jimmym: folds
> KidKGB: folds
> Bumpasaurus: folds
> jomamusfat said, "turn6 still nutd"
> jomamusfat said, "nuts"
> zach65: folds
> wader collected 6750 from pot
> wader: doesn't show hand
> *** SUMMARY ***
> Total pot 6750 | Rake 0
> Seat 1: tylerbills folded before Flop (didn't bet)
> Seat 2: jomamusfat folded before Flop (didn't bet)
> Seat 3: Bumpasaurus folded before Flop
> Seat 4: scottu74 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
> Seat 5: L.O.G.I.C.O folded before Flop (didn't bet)
> Seat 6: zach65 folded before Flop
> Seat 7: wader (button) collected (6750)
> Seat 8: jimmym (small blind) folded before Flop
> Seat 9: KidKGB (big blind) folded before Flop

ScottyZ

Seems like a good spot for a pure value raise against a loose pre-flop raiser. That he might also toss in the weak overcard hands like QJ and KJ adds a bit of power to the play compared with just calling.

The fact that you have re-raised him earlier might even fool him into trying to make a stand with a hand that you badly beat, like A9 or 77. But even without the history of that similar play, I would probably raise it for value against a frequent pre-flop aggressor.

ScottyZ

SirWatts

As you've described him this seems right. Too bad he didn't have 77 this time (or 22).

ScoobyD

Man I love hand 2. Classic squeeze play from Harrington I think... I have yet to use this yet, but since the majority of tournies I play are lower buyin, I think the chances of pulling this off are somewhat lessened...

pkrfce9

Meh, what are your options? Smooth call for 20% of your stack. Min raise for about 40% of your stack or push all in.

1/ Smooth call. This gives you the option to have a look at the flop and decide what to do. You get to act first. Bear in
mind, the flop will come with an overcard to your 10 more than 50% of the time.

2/ Min raise to 6k. You are practically pot committed and I doubt he'd fold. If you are going all in anyway, this may build the pot a bit for you. I expect he'd call the re-raise in this case.

3/ Push all-in. Chances are good he'll fold and even if he calls, you are likely the favourite.

With the first 2 options you will have to make a decision what to do on the flop. What are you looking for on the flop? What will you do with overcards? With 2 overcards, the chances are much better you are behind. Given that flop, would you have pushed in anyway? Or could you have let 20-40% of your stack go?

With the 3rd option, you just have to wait and see. I dunno if this is the right choice for YOU. I would expect you are one of the better players in this so you want to avoid situations where you are a slight favourite.

I'm curious what your thoughts are on these questions.

wader

pkrfce9 wrote:

1/ Smooth call. This gives you the option to have a look at the flop and decide what to do. You get to act first. Bear in
mind, the flop will come with an overcard to your 10 more than 50% of the time.

I'm curious what your thoughts are on these questions.

This is the play I should have made, I get to see the flop with position. If he shows any strength when over cards come I can get away and I can possible even enduce a bluff if he has small pp (with a ragged flop). I pushed because I honestly thought he would fold. Pushing here I think was the worst play.......it gives my hand away(he knows i dont have KK or AA). He may have been more inclined to fold if I make a standard re-raise (make it look like I want him to call).....BUT....I didnt play with him long enough to know if he could throw away a hand (KQ) when his tourny is on the line.
Some people might argue that "if he called when you pushed then he is certainly going to call if you make a re-raise". I disagree. Earlier on in the tourney sure but when you get through all the loose players, calling staions, etc., the players tend to be better (obviously) and the bets that you make lots of time tell your opponent a little bit about your hand. My push here for instance says "I have a hand that doesnt really want a caller........but its good enough to push with"......so I am probabbly holding AK , 99-QQ, If I had AA or KK I would probabbly re-raise if I had AQ I would probabby smooth call (maybe raise against this opponent), AJ 22-88 I would either smooth call or fold.

Wader

wader

Also.....I would push with AA in similar instances if I felt that my opponent might call for some reason. I did it recently in a $500 SNG on PS. Very first hand MP makes it 3xbb(60) and I re-raise 500 more (make it look like 22-88) or something like that........he ponders and finally calls with AK, I win.
The guys thinking "this is the first hand, I have a good hand, hes got to be making a move on me".

Wader

wader

Im changing my mind. I talked this hand over with another player and have decided that the push is the correct play. I can get many opponents to lay down there hand here(especially KQ), he has commited 1/3 of his stack and his only hope is that I am playing an underpair or else he his going to be dominated. If I get called its likely that I have the best hand and If I lose I still have 5 BB left. As PKRFCE9 suggests I will have a flop with over cards 50% of the time so smooth calling is a chip burner. Smooth calling might be allright if my opponent has me out chipped but when I have my opponent out chipped it ads the fold equity if I push.

Wader

SirWatts

If he's calling with KQ he's calling with any pair almost certainly. That alone is enough to make pushing correct.

CrazyJoe113

wader wrote:

pkrfce9 wrote:

1/ Smooth call. This gives you the option to have a look at the flop and decide what to do. You get to act first. Bear in
mind, the flop will come with an overcard to your 10 more than 50% of the time.

I'm curious what your thoughts are on these questions.

This is the play I should have made, I get to see the flop with position. If he shows any strength when over cards come I can get away and I can possible even enduce a bluff if he has small pp (with a ragged flop). I pushed because I honestly thought he would fold. Pushing here I think was the worst play.......it gives my hand away(he knows i dont have KK or AA). He may have been more inclined to fold if I make a standard re-raise (make it look like I want him to call).....BUT....I didnt play with him long enough to know if he could throw away a hand (KQ) when his tourny is on the line.
Some people might argue that "if he called when you pushed then he is certainly going to call if you make a re-raise". I disagree. Earlier on in the tourney sure but when you get through all the loose players, calling staions, etc., the players tend to be better (obviously) and the bets that you make lots of time tell your opponent a little bit about your hand. My push here for instance says "I have a hand that doesnt really want a caller........but its good enough to push with"......so I am probabbly holding AK , 99-QQ, If I had AA or KK I would probabbly re-raise if I had AQ I would probabby smooth call (maybe raise against this opponent), AJ 22-88 I would either smooth call or fold.

Wader

you don't have position, you are in the small blind. You have to act first on the flop when overcards fall, what then? check and show weakness, or lead and hope he missed? puts you in a tough spot being out of position, IN position I can see flat calling, out of position 10 10 is a tough hand to play.

I agree with pushing here, I think you have the right idea in your later posts.

wader

Yeah, I missed that. I just went from memory and never looked over the hand history. In this case its a for sure push.