Closest NL game to Waterloo

g2

Hey guys,

I've never played poker in a casino before and would like to give it a shot.  I prefer No Limit over Limit Holdem any day of the week.  Does Brantford still only offer 2/5 and 5/10 Limit games?  If so, what's the closest casino to Kitchener-Waterloo that offers NL games?  Anything closer than Niagara?  My bankroll won't be any more than $500 so I'm hoping to find something no higher than 2/5.

Thanks
/g2

P.S.  No!  I'm not going to tell you when I'm going so you can take my money, so don't ask 

morty

I was at Brantford on the weekend, and, FYI, they run 10-20 and 20-40 limit games too.

Still just limit, but if you're itching to jeopardize your bankroll, you can find a game there.

g2

Yeah, I read about the 10/20 and 20/40 too, but I wouldn't touch those games with a 10' pole.

/g2

Wolffhound

Pretty sure that Niagara and/or Seneca are your two closest/best bets.

g2

Thanks Dave. Niagara it is then... I don't turn 21 until March.

Any tips on the best time of day to play? I'm thinking I'll go up on a Saturday morning and play all day, but I could go on a Sunday or Sunday night.

/g2

Wolffhound

I'd check with SocietyRed or 88Fingers. I believe they both frequent Niagara for some NL fun.

SocietyRed

If you want 1/2 NL games I would recommend Seneca Casino since they rake each pot and not charge session fees. If you cant make it there then Casino Niagara is your best bet. Every night they have 1/2NL on multiple tables, very loose games, veeeery profitable if you play smart. They do run 2/5 NL Max $200 some nights and thats about the same skill level as 1/2 NL. If you want higher stakes then Fallsview is your best bet. 5/5 and 5/10 NL games are run every night. Word of caution though. Players at Fallsview are 10 times more skilled then CN. I havent been to Casino Niagara in a while since I've been playing at Casino Windsor a lot ever since I started working down there 2 weeks a month. Maybe 88Fingers can add more to the way the play is at CN since he's been there a few times lately. I myself have had plenty of success at CN playing 1/2 NL. And they do run the new lottery SNG's at both casinos now, so if you feel like really gambling you can give those a shot too.

Hope this helps


Red

g2

Thanks for the info Red. I can't wait to give Casino Niagara a shot. Is it just in the evening that they have poker, or will there be 1/2 NL tables open on, say, Sunday afternoon?

/g2

ScottyZ

If you want 1/2 NL games I would recommend Seneca Casino since they rake each pot and not charge session fees.

Although the Casino Niagara session fee is high ($10 per hour IIRC) so that it is probably true in this case, a rake is not automatically better than a session fee.

What is the typical hourly table rake at Seneca for a 1/2 NL game?

ScottyZ

g2

I'm the kind of guy who tips big at the end of my session, as opposed to a couple bucks for each pot I win. So I think I'd actually prefer paying a flat session fee rather than seeing a rake take a small % of the pot each hand. Probably speeds the game up a bit too.

/g2

ScottyZ

I think I'd actually prefer paying a flat session fee rather than seeing a rake take a small % of the pot each hand.

I guess my point was, how can you prefer one of these over the other if you don't know the (expected) cost of each per hand dealt (or, as a good approximation, per hour)?

ScottyZ

g2

I know.  I haven't played with either method before though, so I guess I'll find out.  I'll have to wait until March to compare Seneca's rake with CN's flat fee. 

/g2

SocietyRed

ScottyZ wrote:

If you want 1/2 NL games I would recommend Seneca Casino since they rake each pot and not charge session fees.

Although the Casino Niagara session fee is high ($10 per hour IIRC) so that it is probably true in this case, a rake is not automatically better than a session fee.

What is the typical hourly table rake at Seneca for a 1/2 NL game?

ScottyZ

I belive the rake is $4 max at Seneca. In one hour at a 1/2 NL table I'll be lucky to play 5 hands. If I win all five I doubt my portion of the rake would equal $10 I would pay in session fees. Even if the rake is $5 max I think I would pay less if its raked. Even still I play at CN more often then Seneca only because the games are a lot more profitable then at Seneca. I've made a habit of getting extra chips and paying the session fees out of my pocket rather then from my chip stack.
If anyone thinks $5/30minutes is bad, come down here to windsor. I'm paying $6 every 30 minutes at Casino Windsor to play $100Max (1/2 NL). In the end its all good if you're winning

Red

ScottyZ

I belive the rake is $4 max at Seneca.

Okay, this is a good start.


Next, to compute average (expected) table rake we would need to know (at least roughly):

1. What is the average rake which is actually taken per hand? Knowing a few more specifics about the rake structure might give some idea of how to approximate this.

2. How many hands are dealt per hour?


For example, if most pots reach the max rake point, and 30 hands per hour are dealt, then $120 comes off the table per hour. This is worse than a $100 per table-hour session fee. If, on average, 20 hands are dealt, 50% of the hands are not raked at all, and 50% of the hands are raked $2, then the average table rake is $20 per hour, which is vastly superior to the $100 table time charge.


To compute individual expected rake per hour (that is, taking into account your playing style) is complicated. We need to know:

1. How much of your own money goes into the pot (per hour, on average) during the portion of the hand when the hand is being raked.

This is neither easy to approximate theoretically, nor keep track of in practice.1

ScottyZ

1Unless you have the l33t MaDSkiLLZ of a moose04 or MickeyHoldem.

SocietyRed

Just out of curiosity. What do you do for a living ScottyZ?

CrazyJoe113

At Seneca, pot is raked $3 on the flop and and extra $1 if pot reaches $40. I wouldn't feel uncomfortable saying it would be 50/50 for pots raked $3/$4 so an average of $3.50 a hand at 30 hands is $105 which is about the same as $10/hr session fee for 10 people. Obviously rake favours the tighter players over session fee. Another thing I like is a rake causes a more laid back and friendly atmosphere. I find at Niagara, people are on other's case about acting quickly since we are each paying $10 an hour to play, I personally prefer a laid back attitude at the table. I would choose Seneca every day over Niagara, in fact, I don't think I'm ever going back to CN, I'll just get a shuttle and walk across the border.

*NOTE*

At Seneca, pot is raked $3 on the flop NO MATTER HOW MUCH IS IN THE POT. A sad story about this:

I'm in BB playing 9 handed, UTG limps, all fold, SB completes, I check. POT: $6

I flop top pair, pot is raked $3. NEW POT: $3

SB checks, I bet $4, all fold, I win. POT: $3

I throw in $1 for small blind, dealer mistakes it for a tip and takes it. NEW POT: $2

BB invested: $2

3 handed pot won: $2

Net profit: $0

ScottyZ

Obviously rake favours the tighter players over session fee. Another thing I like is a rake causes a more laid back and friendly atmosphere. I find at Niagara, people are on other's case about acting quickly since we are each paying $10 an hour to play, I personally prefer a laid back attitude at the table.

This, I think, is an excellent point. It's the main reason I'd favour a raked NL game over a session fee game if the expected house drop per hand was pretty close between the two.

The nicer atmosphere you mentioned is very important in NL, where, from time to time, you're going to need some time to give a hand some serious thought. Having disgruntled time charge players breathing down your neck would suck.

ScottyZ