Micro-limit results
Hi all,
This is my first post to the site, which I've been reading with great interest.
Wondering if I can get some feedback on my results at the 0.25-0.50 level, where I've been playing regularly for a few months. My win rate seems good (almost 8 BB per 100 hands), but PokerTracker rates me as a "semi-loose-aggressive/passive" (the green sad face), which isn't flattering. I don't think I'm just getting lucky, since I've had many bad runs to go along with the good ones, but I want to make sure I'm playing right before I move up to the next level.
Here are some of the major stats pulled from PokerTracker. Please feel to criticize if you think there are places where I can improve my game, particularly by being more aggressive. (When betting pre-flop, I stick pretty closely to the recommendations in Lee Jones' book.)
Total Hands: 4,567
Vol. Put $ In Pot: 27.63% (1,262 times out of 4,567)
Saw Flop All Hands: 35.23% (1,609 times out of 4,567)
Saw Flop Not A Blind: 22.00% (747 times out of 3,396)
Won $ When Saw Flop: 26.35% (424 times out of 1,609)
Amount Won: Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â $177.80
Win Rate Per 100 Hands: $3.89
Big Bets Won Per 100 Hands: 7.79
Went To Showdown: 34.00% (547 times out of 1,609)
Won $ At SD: 51.37% (281 times out of 547)
Raised Pre-flop: 8.80% (402 times out of 4,567)
Aggression factor [(Raise % + Bet %) / Call %]
Pre-flop: 0.43
Flop:Â Â Â 2.27
Turn:Â Â Â 2.02
River:Â Â Â 1.53
TOTAL:Â 1.09 (or 2.00 if you don't include pre-flop)
Many thanks for whatever feedback you can offer about PokerTracker's default rating system as well. Best wishes.
ZeroGuy
This is my first post to the site, which I've been reading with great interest.
Wondering if I can get some feedback on my results at the 0.25-0.50 level, where I've been playing regularly for a few months. My win rate seems good (almost 8 BB per 100 hands), but PokerTracker rates me as a "semi-loose-aggressive/passive" (the green sad face), which isn't flattering. I don't think I'm just getting lucky, since I've had many bad runs to go along with the good ones, but I want to make sure I'm playing right before I move up to the next level.
Here are some of the major stats pulled from PokerTracker. Please feel to criticize if you think there are places where I can improve my game, particularly by being more aggressive. (When betting pre-flop, I stick pretty closely to the recommendations in Lee Jones' book.)
Total Hands: 4,567
Vol. Put $ In Pot: 27.63% (1,262 times out of 4,567)
Saw Flop All Hands: 35.23% (1,609 times out of 4,567)
Saw Flop Not A Blind: 22.00% (747 times out of 3,396)
Won $ When Saw Flop: 26.35% (424 times out of 1,609)
Amount Won: Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â $177.80
Win Rate Per 100 Hands: $3.89
Big Bets Won Per 100 Hands: 7.79
Went To Showdown: 34.00% (547 times out of 1,609)
Won $ At SD: 51.37% (281 times out of 547)
Raised Pre-flop: 8.80% (402 times out of 4,567)
Aggression factor [(Raise % + Bet %) / Call %]
Pre-flop: 0.43
Flop:Â Â Â 2.27
Turn:Â Â Â 2.02
River:Â Â Â 1.53
TOTAL:Â 1.09 (or 2.00 if you don't include pre-flop)
Many thanks for whatever feedback you can offer about PokerTracker's default rating system as well. Best wishes.
ZeroGuy
Comments
The weakest part of this otherwise excellent book, are the starting hand recommendations. IMHO, they are a little too loose, and far too agressive, particularly for relatively new players.
(I'm refering to the 2nd edition of WLLHE, and I don't know whether or not this has been updated in the 3rd ed)
Hence,
too loose, and
too aggressive (pre-flop).
Though opinion on the "correct" RPF number is vague and open for debate, I feel fairly confident that the VP$IP should be roughly 20%. This is both the general consensus I have seen on various forums, and pretty close to my own micro-limit (say, $1-$2 and under) VP$IP, though mine is over a short sample.
ScottyZ
Really? I remember Jones as being far tighter and less aggressive than SSHE for example. Browsing through my own .50-1 stats, as Scotty said my VPIP was slightly less than 20. PFR was a little below 8. My AF on both the flop and turn tended to be much higher though... VPIP does seem high, but it IS only a 5k sample size, and Hero's win rate is ridiculously high. Couldn't these numbers correspond to a big run of getting hit in the face by the deck?
In terms of VP$IP, >4,000 is more than enough hands to be able to pick up things like whether you do play K5s, or do not play K5s. I think that the "how I play poker" PokerTracker stats (for the most part) only require modest sample sizes to give a good indication of a player's tendencies.
There are a bunch of sophist-a-micated statistical doo-hikeys than can help you figure out how accurate computations of win rate are.
Possibly. If that is the case, I suppose that the conclusion is that I also think that the SSHE starting hand requirements are a little too loose and far too aggressive, particularly for relatively new players.
ScottyZ
Maybe, but I'd really doubt that if you were following Jones (or Miller's) advice that your VPIP would be that high in the first place. From my own experience I'd say new players have a tendency to do 2 things way to much that would lead to the higher numbers:
1) Play weak hands in EP. (Just because it says you can play 98s in LP with multiple limpers doesn't mean you should be limping it UTG).
2) Cold-calling raises too much with weak hands.
I would guess both of these things are happening too much (I know I did both when I was starting).
One question, though: Is it reasonable (and profitable) to play a little looser than 20% VP$IP in games that are loose-passive? For example, folding AJo in second or third position seems overly tight to me in a game where people routinely play ace-rag and will call down hands with an ace and no kicker. (I do, however, regularly fold small pairs from EP, and I don't play small suited connectors except on the button or cut-off.)
ZeroGuy
It is reasonable to play looser (I wouldn't know the exact numbers to quantify how loose though). Incidently in very loose passive games I'd say small pairs may have as much (if not more) value in EP than AJo due to the huge implied odds you have of hitting your set.
Sure, if you are an experienced low-limit player who plays well post-flop. Of course, the catch 22 is that most players think they are more experienced than they really are, and most players think they play better post-flop than they actually do.
But IMO "a little looser" really should result in pretty small variations in VP$IP. In a full ring game, tweaking your pre-flop starting hands to adjust to a game texture by loosening (or tightening) up should probably lead to a (short term) swing in VP$IP of 2 or 3 percentage points. VP$IP swings larger than this would probably suggest that you're going overboard with the adjustment.
Remember, 20% VP$IP is merely a ballpark figure. 22-23% would certainly be reasonable for an experienced player in a typical micro-limit game. A pure beginner would be doing fine with a VP$IP of 18%. It's when you start getting outside the 15-25% range for VP$IP in a full ring game, that you might be going a little far.
ScottyZ
Obviously, in a passive game you don't expect to encounter a pre-flop raise behind you. That's what passive means. It's just that in EP, there are simply a lot of players remaining to act behind you which greatly increases the chances of someone picking up a legitimate raising hand. Even passive pre-flop players will raise legitimate raising hands most of the time.
So against a legitimate raising hand AJo is often reduced to a 3-outer. Why is a pocket pair, a 2-outer, any better than this? Simply because
1. You make a more powerful hand when it hits, and
2. You know you have actually hit your hand when it hits.
For example, if you limp in (or raise) in EP with the AJo, and are raised (respectively re-raised, or even just called), and you flop an Ace, do you love the result? You're now either way behind AK or way ahead of QQ (or similar hands). Of course, the reverse is the case when you hit the Jack. On the other hand, flopping a set is flopping a set, period. You're (generally) way ahead of everybody. You're not in a post-flop guessing game.
ScottyZ
Thanks, but it's really up to PokerTracker in the end.
My OQ per 100 hands is currently at 92.06%, but I need to increase my sample size, so I sent away for some of those free packets of shampoo that come in the mail.
ScottyZ
Random Guy at Concert #1: Are you being sarcastic, man?
Random Guy at Concert #2: I don't even know any more...
ScottyZ
Text is so lousy at conveying those things. I guess smileys are an attempt to remedy this. Scatter liberally throughout.
Gotcha.
ScottyZ
small small sample
too loose, you wanna be around the 20-23% range in a 50cent/1dollar game
you are running extremely good. an expert 50cent/1dollar player is going to only run at 3BB/100 hands over a significant amount of hands (100,000 plus). 2bb/100 is still very good.
probably a bit low, but not bad.
So who's right? Fight, fight, fight, fight, fight, fight!!! (Flicking lightswitch a la Homer J.)
I'm guessing one side is going to pull out the "Punish the morons for their preflop mistakes", while the other is going to qualify saying it's too aggressive for a beginner if they don't know how to play the hands appropriately post-flop ie. "I raised ATo preflop, therefore I should be calling down to the river on a board of KKQxx since I can't throw away those 2 bets I already invested preflop!"
OK, I'll quit speculating, I'm just trying to stir the pot of course...