Middle pair in tourney - basic strategy

IronDocIronDoc
in Brags, Beats & Variance
I never really know how to play when dealt 55 - 88 in a tourney...especially in the middle stages and in middle position.  I would like to see a discussion on this topic if anyone can help.  Any input is welcome...thanks.

Bill

Comments

  • Big EBig E
    -I play a pretty tight game but with no raise in front of me I call with middle pair hoping to see the flop cheap and hit a set.

    -If there is a raise in front of me I'll tend to dump 8's and lower, 8 is usually my cutoff but depending on the pot size and the amount of the raise and your read on the table, ie:) how many other will call after you...I may stay in with middle pair if I have or will have odds.

    -With a raise after me it's all about odds to call, if you got the odds call, if not dump and wait for a better hand, chasing trips can be costly.

    -If the flop doesn't hit me and there are overcards, I'll fold to pressure. If the flop doesn't hit me but there aren't any overcards it gets fun, I'd likely try to bet others out of the pot at that point with a decent sized bet that would not give others odds to call, I'd really not want a big fight with middle pair...but that is just my opinion. I have a mediocre record in MTT's likely as I am too tight, but a very profitable record in SNG's, go figure?
  • pkrfce9pkrfce9
    No simple answer. There are a lot of variables which play a role. I can give general guidelines. Give me specifics and I can give you my thoughts.

    Here are some things to consider:
    * Anyone in the pot yet? Limping or raising? Is the raiser a maniac? I'm unlikely to call a big raise. I would re-raise a maniac, though. Would anyone after me give me credit for a good hand and fold a hand that will out flop me?

    * What's the table like? Aggressive players behind you? If you limp will the BB bet out on any flop? Will everyone fold to a standard raise? What do you want to do if there is a raise behind you? Depends on the raiser...

    * How big is your stack? With a big stack it is worth checking out. With a medium stack, maybe not. With a small stack, can you push and steal the blinds or maybe double up against a caller with Ax?

    * How big are the stacks left to act and the ones already in? How do they play? This will give you an idea of what kind of action you could expect and how much you may be able to win. Can you bluff them out on a scary flop? Will they give you credit or have you been winning a lot of pots without showing you hand lately?

    Classic example of advanced thinking in action last night. In a SNG we are down to 4. Top 3 get paid. I am medium stack. In the BB, I am dealt 88. Not bad. UTG is extreme short stack. He'll be all-in when the blinds go through him. Button has huge stack and has been stealing liberally. He usually raises 3xBB or more and no one calls.

    This time he min-raises. SB folds. I figure it is worth a call. He could be holding anything. I might be able to bluff him out on the flop or maybe get lucky, hit the flop and double up. Beside, it will be pretty easy to get away from and still be in position to hit the money with ease.

    Flop comes A82 rainbow. Sweeeeeeeet! I dug the hole and covered it with twigs and leaves. I check. The knucklehead goes for it. Left Hook. Uppercut. And a flurry to the solar plexus. He overbets severely and goes all in. I chuckle to myself and call. What a maroon! No second or third place for me tonight. I'm gonna win it all! Turns out he had AA. Oops. Man, do I feel bad now...

    Do not try this at home.
  • KRNLKRNL
    From anything other than the first three positions I like to make a standard raise with any pair, even deuces, and try to get as many players out of the hand as possible.  Ideally you'll be able to get it down to heads-up.  If it's raised back at me, then I usually fold anything less than 99 unless I'm getting about 5:1 on my money.   If I can get it heads-up or down to three I make a half-pot bet pretty much regardless of any overs and see what happens.  If I get a more than two callers I'll play it cannier - you may be able to represent an ace if it hits thanks to the raise - but I'll typically dump the hand if overs hit.  If the flop comes ragged, I'll make a half-pot bet.    My play after that becomes very read and stack-dependent, but that's the line I usually take with pocket pairs in an MTT.   In my experience, at least, I find this more profitable than simply calling and hoping to catch a set on the flop.  

    Genreally, this works pretty well but there are always exceptions.  Sometimes it pays to make a smaller continuation bet (say 1/3 pot) and sometimes check-call will work best if you're playing against the type of player who cannot fold A-Qo.   By mid-tournament you should have a sense of who will play back at you with nothing and who will fold when they miss, who will chase with two overs and who will try to trap with a big pair/set.    
  • SirWattsSirWatts
    Depends on how deep the stacks are mostly. My default is If there is a limper in front of me I almost always limp and try to flop a set with all of these. I will raise to isolate a limper with 77-88 if the limper is particularly loose. I will open raise 77-88 with 5-6 players behind me and maybe 66 with 5 behind me about half the time or less, I fold smaller pairs unless stacks are particularly deep in which case I will often limp. With 4 players behind me I open raise 55+, from the CO add 44 and from the button I raise all pairs. If the blinds are particularly tight I'm raising any pair from the CO and probably loosening up a in some of the other positions slightly. I hate open limping and i like trying to pick up blinds basically sums it up.
  • Big EBig E
    pkrfce9 wrote:
    Flop comes A82 rainbow. Sweeeeeeeet! I dug the hole and covered it with twigs and leaves. I check. The knucklehead goes for it. Left Hook. Uppercut. And a flurry to the solar plexus. He overbets severely and goes all in. I chuckle to myself and call. What a maroon! No second or third place for me tonight. I'm gonna win it all! Turns out he had AA. Oops. Man, do I feel bad now...

    Do not try this at home.

    ouch baby, very ouch! been there, done that...from very high to very low in no time flat!!!!
  • WaterLooserWaterLooser
    pkrfce9 wrote:
    Flop comes A82 rainbow. Sweeeeeeeet! I dug the hole and covered it with twigs and leaves. I check. The knucklehead goes for it. Left Hook. Uppercut. And a flurry to the solar plexus. He overbets severely and goes all in. I chuckle to myself and call. What a maroon! No second or third place for me tonight. I'm gonna win it all! Turns out he had AA. Oops. Man, do I feel bad now...

    Reference to "The Champ" has to be a candidate for post of the year.
  • pkrfce9pkrfce9
    I said, "Pardon???"
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