Tournaments - What am I doing wrong?

Going Low

Hi everyone,

I have been playing Poker on a regular basis for about 5 years, I joined the online movement a few years ago, and have logged several hundred hours playing online in Limit and No limit games. I normally play 3-6 or 5-10 limit, or $200 buy-in 1-2 No limit, I have done quite well on the internet over the last 12 months, I cashed out several times, and according to my log book, am currently up $5200 on the year.

Having said all that, I have a real hard time making the money in tournaments. I do fine in 10 player sit and go's, but every time I enter an online tournament with 1000+ players, I can't ever seem to get into the top 100. I find I am always in the same situation, I end up having to put my chips in on average hands because the blinds are escalating really fast and I am getting widdled down with average to crappy cards in hand. I am a fairly tight player with periods of aggressive play, this style works well at the cash tables where the blinds are always the same and I get to choose my hands. But in tournaments, I seem to get killed with this play style. I know many of you on here are quite good at tournaments, and often make the money, I guess I am looking for tips on how to survive the longer tournaments. I don't like to push all in, I usually prefer to call an all in.. maybe that is my problem?

I have only played around 12 large online tournaments, all of them with 1600+ players, best I have finished was 110th, which was basically my money back with a few extra bucks as a reward for almost being good

Is there a book that most online tournament players say is a "must read"?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Hork42

I am getting widdled down

I'd get that checked out...

Honestly, 10-12 tournaments isn't a big enough sample size to determine whether you're a winning tournament player or not. Large fields are difficult to win in. That said...

I highlight this statement:

I don't like to push all in, I usually prefer to call an all in.

Yes, that is big problem.

Read Tournament Poker for Advanced Players by David Sklansky, or Harrington on Holdem. You will need to understand Gap Theory, and know when you should push based on position and situation. You don't always need the best cards to go all in, most of it is timing.

Either of these books will help you get a handle on these concepts.

pkrfce9

What Hork said. I'd lean towards both volumes of Harrington. I'll have to go back and look at Sklansky again. As I recall, his approach seems much more cautious but might be more suited to your style.

You need to use the all-in bet for fold equity. That alone will have a huge impact on preventing your stack from whittling away.

Also, take a look at Harrington for the 'continuation bet'. This is a useful tool but it can get you into trouble if you are not careful.

Congrats on your cash results. Nothing to sneeze at there.

Jay845

Like fellow posters have said I think the first thing you need to do is read Harrington on Holdem volume 1&2. Honestly they have changed my tournament game.

Jay

SirWatts

Harrington's books are definitely the bible for NL tournaments (I wouldn't even bother with Sklansky's book). The sections on M and Q value and inflection points in volume 2 shows you how to deal with the increasing blinds and is probably exactly what you need, but I would still read them in order. Of particular importance is the idea that when you're very shortstacked you almost always want to be the one opening the pot with a raise all-in, even with complete garbage in some situations, rather than calling a raise.

Going Low

Thanks for all the info, I'll pick up those books, and experiment with the low buy-in tournaments.

Tilter

SirWatts wrote:

Harrington's books are definitely the bible for NL tournaments (I wouldn't even bother with Sklansky's book). The sections on M and Q value and inflection points in volume 2 shows you how to deal with the increasing blinds and is probably exactly what you need, but I would still read them in order. Of particular importance is the idea that when you're very shortstacked you almost always want to be the one opening the pot with a raise all-in, even with complete garbage in some situations, rather than calling a raise.

I brought both books and SS2 during summer. Have yet to read it, since you say its good, I gotta read it. Maybe fix some some dents in the game.

Also, as for as 12 tourneys are concerned. You need to play more. Going from Ring Games (Limit) to NL, even Limit tournaments is a big jump. Maybe after 100 + tourneys, you will have at least 1-3 final tables in 1000+ fields, and if you're lucky, win one of them!

SirWatts

I could have saved so much time if I could have read those books in the first place. There are a lot of things in there that I had figured out through playing so many tournaments on my own over the last year. It really solidified so many of those concepts in my head and introduced others I hadn't thought of or had been unable to incorporate into my game successfully before. There may be a lot in there for a newer player, it might take a couple reads to get it all, but his advice is bang on imo.