push or call?

SirWattsSirWatts
in Online Poker
55 NL I am in excellent chip position

PokerStars Game #2703846775: Tournament #12956950, Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2005/10/01 - 17:02:25 (ET)
Seat 1: AaronC (25655 in chips)
Seat 2: wari (4120 in chips)
Seat 3: SirWatts (15937 in chips)
Seat 4: Jhawkr93 (5493 in chips)
Seat 5: wildhare2004 (29333 in chips)
Seat 6: gough87 (3103 in chips)
Seat 7: acethree (6206 in chips)
Seat 8: RaceGirl (10302 in chips)
Seat 9: nofoldem (9406 in chips)
ante 25
wari: posts small blind 200
SirWatts: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SirWatts [Qc 7c]
Jhawkr93: folds
wildhare2004: folds
gough87: folds
acethree: folds
RaceGirl: raises 400 to 800
nofoldem: folds
AaronC: folds
wari: folds
SirWatts: calls 400
*** FLOP *** [4c Kc 5c]
SirWatts: checks (I like betting too, I checked here for whatever reason)
RaceGirl: checks
*** TURN *** [4c Kc 5c] [7h]
SirWatts: bets 1000
RaceGirl: calls 1000
*** RIVER *** [4c Kc 5c 7h] [4h]
SirWatts: bets 2000
RaceGirl: raises 2000 to 4000
SirWatts: ?

OK so I don't know if I played the hand great but anyways do we push or play conservative and call. Villian has about 5K more.

Comments

  • zerozero
    push push push
  • pkrfce9pkrfce9
    You didn't say much about your read of the way she had been playing up to that point. Or what you think your table image was at that point. That can have a big impact on how the play of the hand should be interpreted.

    I gotta wonder what RaceGirl is holding. She's first in the pot in MP with a min raise. There are a couple of bigger stacks yet to act. I'm not sure how to interpret that. Is that common for the table? I don't see this as a steal attempt. She's inviting a caller. Have you been defending your blind a lot lately?

    She wasn't trying to protect her hand on flop when you could have been drawing to a flush. Maybe she got caught on her bluff? Could she be on a draw? If she hit a set or had an overpair, I would have expected a bet. Could she be holding an Ace-high flush? Seems unlikely but...

    On the turn, she CALLS your pot-sized bet. What does that mean? I'd be wondering if she is trapping. She has to have a good hand and not be too worried about you drawing out on her. Or be a really weak player??? Depends on your read of her.

    On the river, she min re-raises your bet of 2/3 of the pot. Could it be she thinks she has the best hand and is milking you? If she figured you for a busted flush draw, I would have expected a larger raise. Does she think your bet shows weakness?

    I'm thinking she's got KK. Maybe 44, 55, 77? But could also be AA or a weaker pair played strangely. If you think you are 22% or higher to win this pot, you should call. With the lack of other info, I'd be inclined to call. I don't think I'd push my chips due to the pair on the board. I don't have a clear picture of what she could be holding and don't have any other info on her style of play. So I don't want to risk a huge chunk of my stack but the pot is big enough that I don't want to let it go. A terrible position to be in.

    On an earlier street I would have been much happier to get my chips in. But of course, you were in milking mode at that stage. I think I would have been inclined to make a weak bet on the flop to see if she wants to get her chips in early. I don't mind the bet on the turn either. The fact that she merely called has to get you thinking, though. I would have expected a raise.

    BTW, you said villain had 5k more. I think you meant Hero. Unless you are a naughty boy...
  • Hork42Hork42
    I'd call here. Likely that villain is holding something that can beat you. Acxc is a possibility.
  • SirWattsSirWatts
    I have villian covered by 5K, villian has 5k left after her river raise. I don't have any particularly good read, and the double raise is unusally small.
  • Big EBig E
    I think your good, villian's likely on two pair (AK, KQ-KT, maybe a mid to high pair...I wouldn't think KK)....I'd push.
    What happened?
  • pkrfce9pkrfce9
    Big E wrote:
    What happened?
    Indeed. Tell us your tale of woe.
  • ChugsChugs
    I think i call, not knowing anything about what the players raising standards are. The way he played it, his play on both the flop and turn were very weak for having a set. You would expect some betting from him for protection. He could easily have something like AK with the Ace of clubs a hand that you obviously beat.

    Still i play it safe and call here
  • SirWattsSirWatts
    I couldn't put him on a full house and I was really not thinking about it that much since I was so happy to flop a flush, so I pushed him in and he called showing AcJc. When I analyze the hand now it seems there are 3 possibilities:

    1. He flopped the nuts
    2. He flopped a worse flush.
    3. He played the hand weird with something like top pair onthe flop.

    1. Is the most logical given his betting sequence.
    2. I don't think this is a good way to play a flopped non-nut flush but people do play them this way. He will call my all-in here most likely.
    3. I don't think he's calling my push very often here with some medium strength hand if this happens to be the case so raising is basically the same as calling in this case. Also 1 or 2 seems more likely than 3.

    So basically I don't see a whole lot of value in raising here since I'm basically hoping that if he has a flush that it's worse than mine but given his preflop raise that's unlikely unless he has JcTc or something. I should have learned my lesson from Rounders when Mikey gets cleaned out thinking about what he's gonna do with his pretty money instead of what KGB has. Oh well. I still managed a final table in this tournament but I was fighting on a short stack and if I saved the 5K here it might have ended up turning into a lot of extra chips for me, maybe i could have done better than 8th.
  • pkrfce9pkrfce9
    SirWatts wrote:
    I was really not thinking about it that much since I was so happy to flop a flush
    Isn't it strange how that can happen?

    The min raise pre-flop threw me off, especially since it was low for the table. I think the post-flop play was pretty typical for a very strong hand.

    Any other thoughts on the play now we know the results?
  • TilterTilter
    I think:
    A) called down a flopped set all the way and let it turn into a house before raising (will call your reraise)
    B) as you said flopped the nut flush, trying to get as much as s/he can before putting in a raise just in case you have nothing (will call your reraise)
    C) called down AcXx and then tried a min raise bluff (won't call your reraise)
    D) flopped a smaller flush and called it down before putting in a river raise, I would have raised turn with this hand just in case AcXx is betting (will call your raise probably).

    So 3 of the 4 are bad and you save your chips for a rainy day and make the CRY CALL.
  • ShookShook
    My guess is she is holding A4 or A5 or a weak king.

    She checked the flop .... hmmmm
    She called a bet against a 7 ... kinda rulling out the king but straight draw perhaps ... or maybe middle pair, even bottom.
    Reraises on the River. ...4-X, has you smoked, I think she has you, do you want to risk more on two pair 7's and 4's???

    Just a thought.
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