What do I do now?
Ok here is my latest issue - that has had me eliminated when I was deep into a tourney - plus almost knocking me out the very next day in another tourney....
I have a mid pokcet pair: (once 66 once 77)
First time I limped the 66 from MP and only the SB and BB see the flop. There were no raises. Flop is 63A all diamonds.
check, check - I bet pot - SB folds - BB re-raises to twice my bet - he has me covered.
I figure since it is less than 1% for him to flop a flush, and he is trying to "buy" a free river card - I am not going to let him - I raise all in for the rest of my chips.
He calls - flips 92 off both diamonds....
So I learned - maybe I should (A) raise that pre-flop (B) go all in on the flop and maybe get him to lay down the low-ish flush?
thoughts ??
Then today I have 77 - I raise 3x BB (lesson A from yesterday...) and get one caller: flop is K73 all diamonds !
I push all in (my opponent has me covered) - no free cards I say to myself - he calls and shows Q9 diamonds....what !!!! this is too strange - is this not really rare?
this time i river the 3 to make a boat...."lucky" everyone comments....I say well he was lucky to flop a flush !
how do you guys play a hand where you have raised pre-flop - and flop trips with a fully suited board against one opponent?
how do you guys play a hand where you have NOT raised pre-flop - and flop trips with a fully suited board against one opponent?
this is a tough situation for me, and since I have seen it twice in two days, I know the poker gods are trying to teach me something....
I have a mid pokcet pair: (once 66 once 77)
First time I limped the 66 from MP and only the SB and BB see the flop. There were no raises. Flop is 63A all diamonds.
check, check - I bet pot - SB folds - BB re-raises to twice my bet - he has me covered.
I figure since it is less than 1% for him to flop a flush, and he is trying to "buy" a free river card - I am not going to let him - I raise all in for the rest of my chips.
He calls - flips 92 off both diamonds....
So I learned - maybe I should (A) raise that pre-flop (B) go all in on the flop and maybe get him to lay down the low-ish flush?
thoughts ??
Then today I have 77 - I raise 3x BB (lesson A from yesterday...) and get one caller: flop is K73 all diamonds !
I push all in (my opponent has me covered) - no free cards I say to myself - he calls and shows Q9 diamonds....what !!!! this is too strange - is this not really rare?
this time i river the 3 to make a boat...."lucky" everyone comments....I say well he was lucky to flop a flush !
how do you guys play a hand where you have raised pre-flop - and flop trips with a fully suited board against one opponent?
how do you guys play a hand where you have NOT raised pre-flop - and flop trips with a fully suited board against one opponent?
this is a tough situation for me, and since I have seen it twice in two days, I know the poker gods are trying to teach me something....
Comments
I play the flop very aggressively in both cases. And I think limping with a middle pair is a fine play, especially from MP. Could I lay down a set on a 3-flush flop, especially against only one opponent? No. Not for any amount of chips. Like you said, the chances are just too great that your opponent could have anything BUT a flush. This is one of those instances where you're either going to win a big pot or go broke. You can't play it slow and safe because you don't want your opponent to see another flush card. And, your opponent is thinking the same thing--HE can't play it slow and safe because YOU might have the ace, king, etc. of trump, so he has to try to take it down right then and there.
You're trying to take it down then and there, he's trying to take it down then and there, you both have strong hands.... the chips are going into the middle. Just bad luck, IMO. Keep at it... your sets will hold up more often than not, and win you some big pots in the process.
Maybe you should indeed raise middle pocket pairs preflop, but only for the same reason you'd raise a hand like 8h9h preflop... to mix up your game. Unless, of course, you're open-raising from LP. Generally speaking, though, I think limping, and trying to get a few more limpers, is the best play with middle pairs. And as for going all-in on the flop, there's no way you'd get your opponent to lay down any flush. He might call you with some hands that are behind you though (like a flush draw, two pair, an overpair with a flush draw, etc.) so moving in isn't a bad play.
It does feel a little unlucky - but I just wanted some other thoughts to see if I was missing anything...
And yes, I dont think I have to raise mid pockets all the time, just to mix it up for sure - Id rather have a bunch of limpers
when I hit my set so there is a better chance that someone will have hit a small piece and can pay me off.
Either way, I am starting to think that trips vs a flopped flush is just plain volatile and it would be hard to get away out losing a lot of chips.
Don't get me wrong, I am still going to get busted in both hands presented here if the turn does not make a 4-flush and the opponent already has his flush made. But, if the opponent is drawing for a flush (especially the non-nut flush) with only one card to come, there are more opportunities on the turn to either (a) protect my hand or (b) get paid off on a large value bet, depending on how my opponent will respond to my turn betting.
However, I might be able to avoid some problems the times when the turn does make a 4-flush. The opponent now bets big? I'm going to have to consider folding the set. The opponent checks or makes a small bet? I see if I am justified in trying to draw for my 10-outer. I'm first to act? I'd consider trying to freeze the action (i.e. induce my opponent to slowplay) by making a weak lead into him.
Waiting until 4th street to scoot the loot is a well known NL tactic when you suspect you are probably facing some kind of drawing hand on the flop. Of course, in a limit game, you're simply going to have to be content with getting in value bets on both the flop and turn against a typical drawing hand, but the nature of no-limit allows you to distribute your post-flop betting among the flop, turn, and river as you chose.
A couple of other points:
1. There's typically nothing wrong with playing any pocket pair. (It depends on your position and the pre-flop table texture in terms of exactly when you would toss the smaller pairs of course.) I'd rarely raise pre-flop with middle or small pairs, unless I was going to raise anyway before looking at my cards based on the situation.
2. An opponent who would lay down a made small flush if you made a huge flop bet is going to be difficult to find.
ScottyZ
Normally I would agree with this line, but our redraw to a fullhouse makes us about a 3-1 favourite against a flush draw, I'm definitely trying to get all my money in the middle on those odds.
can we figure out the odds of someone flopping trips (with 2 in the pocket) while a second opponent simultaneously flops a flush?
the bigger that number is, the less crappy i will feel about this seemingly recurring nightmare...