$5-$10 hand, calling at every decision point
The way I played this just seems wrong, but I can't get my head around which decision (if any) should have been something other than a call.
$5-$10 limit cash game at Planet. Full table with 10 players. Pretty loose table, with two significant "donators", including the button. 2nd UTG is new and posts a BB to play the hand.
UTG raises. This is a solid player post-flop, but has loose pre-flop raising standards. 2nd UTG defends the post. Two players in MP call, and I also call cold in the cutoff with TT. Button calls. Both blinds fold.
6 players to the flop. Pot = $62 = 12 small bets
Flop comes 322 with two diamonds and a spade.
UTG bets, and all call.
6 players. Pot = $92 = 9 big bets
Turn is the 3s, and the board now shows two 2-flushes.
UTG checks, 2nd UTG (blind poster) now bets. All call again, except UTG who now goes into the tank and folds.
5 players. Pot = $142 = 14 big bets
River is an offsuit 9, so I still have an overpair.
2nd UTG bets, MP players call, I call. Button now raises. (The button is a horrible player who often makes desparation river bluffs, so this raise is pretty much meaningless to me.) 2nd UTG just calls, one MP now folds (claims later to have had 66), the other MP calls. I call which closes the action for the >$200 pot.
More comments and the results of the hand in white.
I had originally called on the flop with the intention of seeing what happened on the turn, and possibly raising on the turn. I wasn't convinced that I had the UTG player beat, and thought that a post defender could have possibly had a 2 or 3. On the turn, the 2nd UTG player betting out actually worried me, so I called the turn. I think this was probably too timid, and I can't really figure out why I shut down my "call flop, raise turn" planned betting sequence.
The actual result of the hand was that my TT was good.
2nd UTG: 77
MP: Ad Qd (flush draw)
Button: As 8s (backdoor flush draw)
The only clear cut plays I think are the river calls, the second of which closes the action. Folding is clearly wrong with the big pot I think, and the betting so far suggests that there is no reason to think that I can raise for value.
I can see arguments for putting in a raise on pretty much any of the other streets though.
Finally, would anyone consider folding at some point in the hand? What if the button was an unknown player rather than a habitual river bluffer? What if the button was a complete rock? What if you decided to raise the turn and got 3-bet by the 2nd UTG? Or by the button?
ScottyZ
$5-$10 limit cash game at Planet. Full table with 10 players. Pretty loose table, with two significant "donators", including the button. 2nd UTG is new and posts a BB to play the hand.
UTG raises. This is a solid player post-flop, but has loose pre-flop raising standards. 2nd UTG defends the post. Two players in MP call, and I also call cold in the cutoff with TT. Button calls. Both blinds fold.
6 players to the flop. Pot = $62 = 12 small bets
Flop comes 322 with two diamonds and a spade.
UTG bets, and all call.
6 players. Pot = $92 = 9 big bets
Turn is the 3s, and the board now shows two 2-flushes.
UTG checks, 2nd UTG (blind poster) now bets. All call again, except UTG who now goes into the tank and folds.
5 players. Pot = $142 = 14 big bets
River is an offsuit 9, so I still have an overpair.
2nd UTG bets, MP players call, I call. Button now raises. (The button is a horrible player who often makes desparation river bluffs, so this raise is pretty much meaningless to me.) 2nd UTG just calls, one MP now folds (claims later to have had 66), the other MP calls. I call which closes the action for the >$200 pot.
More comments and the results of the hand in white.
I had originally called on the flop with the intention of seeing what happened on the turn, and possibly raising on the turn. I wasn't convinced that I had the UTG player beat, and thought that a post defender could have possibly had a 2 or 3. On the turn, the 2nd UTG player betting out actually worried me, so I called the turn. I think this was probably too timid, and I can't really figure out why I shut down my "call flop, raise turn" planned betting sequence.
The actual result of the hand was that my TT was good.
2nd UTG: 77
MP: Ad Qd (flush draw)
Button: As 8s (backdoor flush draw)
The only clear cut plays I think are the river calls, the second of which closes the action. Folding is clearly wrong with the big pot I think, and the betting so far suggests that there is no reason to think that I can raise for value.
I can see arguments for putting in a raise on pretty much any of the other streets though.
Finally, would anyone consider folding at some point in the hand? What if the button was an unknown player rather than a habitual river bluffer? What if the button was a complete rock? What if you decided to raise the turn and got 3-bet by the 2nd UTG? Or by the button?
ScottyZ
Comments
Sax. Â
Disclaimer: I only play 6-handed
I think the problem with this hand is that the only way your hand is good is if all 5 villians in the hand are bluffing.. A single deuce or trey has you dead and they all called on the flop..
Although it seems to have happened this time, I doubt the low overpair on a double paired board is a longterm winning play...
I think the standard line is to call the flop and raise the turn.. but I dont think the equity is there to run that line..
I think I would have given up on the turn.
Far too agressive for a marginal equity edge on the flop. You are far better off raising a safe turn card when about half the deck scares you badly.
Me? Is it me? I can never wait to play. UTG, 2nd UTG, I don't care. I just post and get in the game.
I three bet here. Given that there are three flat callers and the original raiser has loose raising standards, I think I have the best hand. That's not too importnat, but I want to strongly define my hand since it will make a hand like TT a lot easier to play post-flop.
I raise here. He has loose raising standards AND the other guys are just calling. TT figures to be the best hand. Even if it's not, you should be able to freeze the action or fold if you get much more heat.
I raise here with the intention of checking it down OR folding to a three bet.
I play this street the same.
Ok... now I will hit post and look at the comments.
If the button is an unknown player, I call the river the same as you. If the button is a complete rock, I fold to his raise on the river. If I raise and get 3-bet by 2nd UTG, I muck. If I get three bet by the button and call and see what has does on the river. I alsmost certainly call since it's possible that he has 8-8 to 4-4 and thinks I am bluffing.
Basically, I think that if you deploy more aggression earlier in the hand it paves the way for a possible fold later in the hand.
FLOP: I think raising this flop is pointless and likely to cost us the most when were behind and making us the least when we are ahead. By raising the flop, we cannot protect our hand, so the only reason to raise the flop is for value. But we really dont have much value seeing as how we still may be behind UTGs hand (if he happens to overpair, were getting 3bet everytime) a deuce might be out there, overcards are abundant, and the flush draw on board. Waiting till the turn when we dont have to dodge half the deck twice over before we get our money in is probably best in my opinon. I also think that raising is not going to give us any reliable information...there are plenty of hands that are happy to 3bet that we are ahead of. 66,77,88, 99, diamond draws, 45, and possibly even a strong 3. Weve underrepresented our hand preflop...how can we dump our hand to a flop 3bet?
Furthermore, I dont think we want to freeze the action here. If it comes two bets to us on the turn, we are likely behind anyway and should dump. Freezing the action is only going to put us in a position where we are checked to on the turn, where we are all but have to put in a mandatory value bet and will be checkraised everytime we are behind and will almost always have to call down. Furthermore, we give all those overcards and gutshots an oppurtunity to draw (and correctly so!) for one big bet.
TURN: I raise here, we can safely fold to a 3bet here while punishing A-highs and smaller pocketpairs. (possibly even a stubborn flush draw...)
RIVER: given your read, i dont think theres another way to play it.
ScottyZ
Your quite the pioneer. Ingenious! j/k
I like THE idea of 3-betting pre-flop. In the case of THIS player, it will define his hand.