Short-Handed vs Full Table

westside8

I feel like I've become addicted to short-handed games lately. I feel like there are more fishes out there in the short-handed games, and statistically (the past month) I have been more profitable (6bb/100) playing at short-handed limit hold'em. I also noticed the swings are more drastic in short-handed play. I have (and seen others) go from 10bb to 40bb in matter of 10-20 hands, and lose that same amount if not more in the same number of hands. It seems majority of the time the big pots results in people chasing (sucessfully or unsucessfully getting their hand), or loose players over-valuing middle pair or top pair with weak kicker. I find that it is more rewarding in short-handed to play only premium hands, but you will also get easily frustrated when you don't get a hand for a long period of time, while seeing others win a good-size pots when you know you had him beat.

Just wondering what others think about my observations (if you've noticed the same thing, or I'm completely out in right field), the difference in play, the "difficulty", and everything else associated with poker.

ScottyZ

I see this a lot.

How can you classify players as fish when you are relatively unfamiliar with short-handed play yourself? This is akin to walking into an MLB baseball game and saying, "Man, these pitchers suck. They can't even hit the strike zone three times in a row."

For example, depending what exactly you mean by "premium hands", this

I find that it is more rewarding in short-handed to play only premium hands

is probably too tight a list of starting hand requirements for short-handed limit poker.

Also, top pair no kicker, and medium pair are strong holdings in a short-handed game, and should be played in many situations, and often played aggressively.

A solid short-handed player playing the exact same style in a full ring game will get killed, and vice versa. To someone who is used to full ring games, good short-handed players might easily read as full game fish.

ScottyZ

westside8

I guess I should reword what I wrote a bit better, as after reading Scotty's comment, as well as rereading what I wrote, I wrote something that is not completely what I meant.

I guess I wasn't clear enough with what I was going to say. Mainly with regarding to referring to players as fishes and playing various pots. The main part I left out was majority of the players I've played on short-handed tables rarely pay attention to the type of style a particular player players. I might've used the word "fish" too loosely, but it appears many players I've played with are only concerned with the hand they hold, and neglecting what other player might hold in relation to the community cards.

I know there are many parts of my game (if not my entire game) that needs fine-tuning, and I really feel this is the place I can get better by getting others opinion and learn from their experience.

SirWatts

Shirthanded can definitely be more profitable then full table, but it is a more complicated game, and the swings can be huge. It sounds like you are running good righ now, but I can tell you from experience that when you start running bad it is going to really suck. A lot. I would recommend masternng full tables first since they are easier to beat and at that level I doubt you lose much on your winrate. When you build a good bankroll from that then give shorthanded a try if you like.

Dave Scharf

I like it because I am an adrenaline monkey. I am not patient. I want to play A LOT of hands. Short-handed games are, thus, more inline with my personality.

moose

I agree. Shorthanded is fun because you are in there mucking it up more often. Aggression plays a bigger role shorthanded and you win many more pots without going to a showdown. It is easier to dominate a short handed table. Proper hand selection coupled with aggression can really crush the players who like to chase straights and flushes because they are rarely getting the proper odds to call.

ryanhealy

I just got mauled in a short handed game.

I was playing 10-20 full table, which I had JUST barely enough in my account to do, and soon after the table broke down to THREE handed.

Me being an IDIOT. I didn't get up and leave. This is one of those massively frustrating sessions when on any given day, I would've made a LOT of money, but of course today, it was all losses.

I got destroyed by a guy who was awwwwful but could not stop getting lucky. Twice he beat my straights with runner runner flushes and twice he beat me trips with a magic river. Once to give him higher trips and once to give him a gutshot straight draw.

I mean I know shorthanded there are more hands you can play, and more situations in which a call is correct, but this guy was RIDICULOUS. He would NOT fold ANY draw and he kept hitting them on me!

Needless to say, the pots I was losing were fairly large sicne I was pounding them against this guy.

He was just one of the luckiest SOBs I;ve ever played against and sure enough just under an hour later later I'm down $550.

Now it's back to 5-10 and I think it'll be a LONG time before I play a short handed game again.

Dave Scharf

Short handed $10-20 is very hard on the nerves. At least, it is on mine.

Shook

Ok. ..Ok ... I pushed my luck and tried some 5/10 and I got handled ... not because I played weak cards, I was simply out played (or donkey-ed depending on when you ask me - I try to be a nice guy)

I have been playing a lot of 3/6 and I have found that when I sit at a table with other timid players I have great success. I have won 3x my money in 20-30 min.

My question is am I too passive by laying down hands like K10 suited when there is a raise and a re-raise to me?

Typically I think that hand is playable and worth seeing a flop with (AT BEST). Then it turns out the original raise was a A4o and the re-raise was A6 suited. Is it me or are these players putting too much value into their hands?

I would think this is isolated, but is Ax really that strong in a 4 handed game? I would think not, but all day this happens.

Finally I think my other beef is related to the limits I am playing at (same thing at 5/10) I put in a raise and get smoked by a re-raise with A2 who hits two pair.

Grrrr ... Frustration is ggrrrreat.

the_main

some of the simplest and best advice ive gotten about shorthanded tables was from zeejustin

play it like youre in middle/late position at a full ring game and its been folded to you (i.e play UTG in shorthanded the same way as UTG+3 at a full game)

SirWatts

The best advice I ever read about 6-max was in some thread on 2+2. It basically said that you're still playing limit holdem. You don't need to change your game. What makes it difficult is that people are not used to the situations that arise all the time in a shorthanded game since they don't occur often enough in full games (especially loose passive games) and they don't know how to play them properly. This leads to otherwise solid players making crazy/terrible plays, or playing too weak/tight.