Hand for Analysis
PokerStars Game #2455561381: Hold'em Limit ($1/$2) - 2005/08/30 - 00:20:04 (ET)
Table 'Iphidamas II' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: quibble ($28.25 in chips)
Seat 2: ggjjosh ($51.75 in chips)
Seat 3: Jay EZ 2Beat ($148.50 in chips)
Seat 4: jae11 ($70.75 in chips)
Seat 5: dcal366 ($34 in chips)
Seat 6: wesleyw ($21.75 in chips)
Jay EZ 2Beat: posts small blind $0.50
jae11: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to wesleyw [9s Ks]
dcal366: calls $1
wesleyw: calls $1
quibble: calls $1
ggjjosh: folds
Jay EZ 2Beat: calls $0.50
jae11: checks
*** FLOP *** [As Qs 5s]
Jay EZ 2Beat: bets $1
jae11: folds
dcal366: calls $1
wesleyw: calls $1
quibble: folds
*** TURN *** [As Qs 5s] [Js]
Jay EZ 2Beat: checks
dcal366: checks
wesleyw: checks
*** RIVER *** [As Qs 5s Js] [Ah]
Jay EZ 2Beat: bets $2
dcal366: calls $2
wesleyw: raises $2 to $4
Jay EZ 2Beat: calls $2
dcal366: calls $2
*** SHOW DOWN ***
wesleyw: shows [9s Ks] (a flush, Ace high)
Jay EZ 2Beat: shows [Ad 5d] (a full house, Aces full of Fives)
dcal366: mucks hand
Jay EZ 2Beat collected $19.25 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $20 | Rake $0.75
Board [As Qs 5s Js Ah]
Seat 1: quibble folded on the Flop
Seat 2: ggjjosh (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Jay EZ 2Beat (small blind) showed [Ad 5d] and won ($19.25) with a full house, Aces full of Fives
Seat 4: jae11 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: dcal366 mucked [Ac 9d]
Seat 6: wesleyw showed [9s Ks] and lost with a flush, Ace high
I played this hand really badly (in my opinion). Just want to see how everyone else would play this one. I don't know if I maybe slow played it too much? I put him on a two pair on the flop, but was hoping the other caller had made a decent (8s or around that area) flush on turn to come out betting. Was afraid of the boat on the river, but after his call, still thought he only had two pair or decent flush until he flipped over A5. Thinking he was afraid of a bigger boat and thats why he didn't reraise?
Any input will be appreciated.
Table 'Iphidamas II' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: quibble ($28.25 in chips)
Seat 2: ggjjosh ($51.75 in chips)
Seat 3: Jay EZ 2Beat ($148.50 in chips)
Seat 4: jae11 ($70.75 in chips)
Seat 5: dcal366 ($34 in chips)
Seat 6: wesleyw ($21.75 in chips)
Jay EZ 2Beat: posts small blind $0.50
jae11: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to wesleyw [9s Ks]
dcal366: calls $1
wesleyw: calls $1
quibble: calls $1
ggjjosh: folds
Jay EZ 2Beat: calls $0.50
jae11: checks
*** FLOP *** [As Qs 5s]
Jay EZ 2Beat: bets $1
jae11: folds
dcal366: calls $1
wesleyw: calls $1
quibble: folds
*** TURN *** [As Qs 5s] [Js]
Jay EZ 2Beat: checks
dcal366: checks
wesleyw: checks
*** RIVER *** [As Qs 5s Js] [Ah]
Jay EZ 2Beat: bets $2
dcal366: calls $2
wesleyw: raises $2 to $4
Jay EZ 2Beat: calls $2
dcal366: calls $2
*** SHOW DOWN ***
wesleyw: shows [9s Ks] (a flush, Ace high)
Jay EZ 2Beat: shows [Ad 5d] (a full house, Aces full of Fives)
dcal366: mucks hand
Jay EZ 2Beat collected $19.25 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $20 | Rake $0.75
Board [As Qs 5s Js Ah]
Seat 1: quibble folded on the Flop
Seat 2: ggjjosh (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Jay EZ 2Beat (small blind) showed [Ad 5d] and won ($19.25) with a full house, Aces full of Fives
Seat 4: jae11 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: dcal366 mucked [Ac 9d]
Seat 6: wesleyw showed [9s Ks] and lost with a flush, Ace high
I played this hand really badly (in my opinion). Just want to see how everyone else would play this one. I don't know if I maybe slow played it too much? I put him on a two pair on the flop, but was hoping the other caller had made a decent (8s or around that area) flush on turn to come out betting. Was afraid of the boat on the river, but after his call, still thought he only had two pair or decent flush until he flipped over A5. Thinking he was afraid of a bigger boat and thats why he didn't reraise?
Any input will be appreciated.
Comments
Preflop: Not sure I like the limp, but probably not horrid if there's lots of limping going on. I think I probably prefer raising though.
Flop: I probably just come right out and raise my nut flush right then. If you have an aggressive image people might think that either you have an A and are protecting against the 4th flush card coming, or that you are possibly betting a flush draw. I doubt you rarely will lose the flop better and caller for one more small bet unless they are fairly tight. Calling is OK if you think your opponents are aggressive enough to bet the turn.
Turn. Crap. The 4th flush looks like it's killing your action. I don't understand why you don't bet here. It's limit. You have to bet your hand for value at some point if your opponents aren't aggressive enough to bet it themselves. Ironically it's possible that an aggressive player might try to check-raise here with the Ts, giving you a chance to 3 bet, but you have to bet for that to happen.
River: Probably the worst card for your hand. Yes, it may have only made someone trips, and they might pay off for one bet even with the 4 flush if they're loose, but I'd have trouble believing they'd lead into that pot with only the trips in a 3 handed pot.
Remember, you don't have to always slowplay big hands to get the most from them, and in limit generally slowplaying won't get the most value anyways, especially if your opponents are passive.
Certainly a playable hand 6-handed. I like limping in behind one limper rather than raising.
I would actually go ahead and raise here. The two opponents who called already aren't going anywhere.
You must bet here. While one may argue for slowplaying the flop, the 4th flush card coming on board means that you will get no further action from one pair hands, might still get action from two pair or a set, and probably will get action from a made flush.
The main reason for slowplaying has disappeared--- to allow your opponents to catch up so that they will pay you off later. The opponents that will pay you off later will also pay you off now, and the hands that can improve against you (and would reasonably call the turn1) will beat you if they do improve.
The worst card in the deck for you. Aces up is the most likely two pair hand that might have hung around.
Even still, it's a pretty close decision between raising and calling. There is no reason to think that dcal366 has you beat, and there is a reasonable range of hands that Jay EZ 2Beat (and certainly dcal366) might have that you can beat and that he would call you with.
This call is, quite honestly, amazing. I can see why Jay is EZ 2Beat.
Don't get too carried away with slowplaying. Particularly important in short-handed poker, you need to set up your bluffs with plenty of aggressive betting with your legitimate hands. Don't get into the "strong means weak, weak means strong" betting pattern rut, or your opponents may start eating you alive when you bet agrressively as a bluff, or even when you bet a medium strength holding. And, even at low-limits where players are paying little attention, playing this big a hand as slowly as you did can still easily get burned into your opponents' retinas and/or brains.
While it might be a close decision between calling and raising on the flop, the difference between checking and betting on the turn is like night and day. Bet with the best.
ScottyZ
1There's also nothing wrong with winning a value bet (or bets) from someone who shouldn't call you.
The more I think about it, I really felt slowplaying might've been the main cause to losing this hand. Stuck around enough to eventually go up 5bb at the end of my session. I should've raised the flop, with 2 callers already, as Scotty said, they are not going anywhere, and no reason to think they would think I would re-raise with the nut flush. If I raised the turn, I probably would've been able to take down the pot right there, completely avoiding the Ace on the river.
Just another lesson learned at the expense of my bankroll.
Yes, maybe, but that shouldn't really be your goal just because in hindsight your opponents caught a 4 outer to beat you. You should bet because it gives your opponents the choice between making an unprofitable call and folding to give you the pot. Either way, you win (but you should WANT the call). Checking behind them doesn't give them this lose-lose choice, and you give them infinite odds to catch their miracle card.
FLOP: Id raise here. In SH Hold'em, people are liable to call down with weaker holdings and push back with weaker holdings. The two that are already in for a bet are going to call your raise, and theres no guarantee that your going to get more bets in on the turn if you play slow here.
TURN: Question...if we dont value bet the nuts....what are we value betting?! Checking and closing the action on a street with a hand that is certainly the best is absolutely awful. Must bet, everytime!
A plethora of spades will still call you, as well as two pairish type hands.
RIVER: After checking the turn, I think a raise is in order. The lead bettor is likely to have a big spade that he now thinks is good since the turn got checked and will be willing to pay off your raise.