i took an AADAC test once...a normal person without a gambling problem on a scale of 1-10 scores a 5...i scored a 9.
the questions were totally unfair tho...
Do you spend large amounts of time gambling?
Do you find yourself making bigger and bigger bets?
Do you feel frequent highs and lows?
Do you boast about winning?
Do you prefer gambling to family events?
Do you seek new places to gamble close to home?
Do you have hopes of someday making a big win?
I was going to post about the same thing. Funny funny stuff.
For those thathaven't seen it. Some guy quit his job (own business) and has lost about $100 000 playing poker. His wife has MS, they have two kids and the guy's mother-in-law has been paying their mortgage.
Right out of that Daily Show episode, Phil says something to the effect of, "But you suck at Poker!" After the man claims he wants to turn pro, sell his house and buy an RV to travel around the country with his family playing in poker tournaments. The problem (one of way too many) Dr. Phil had was that this guy has yet to turn a profit playing poker. He has never brought home the money.
Obviously they always get the biggest idiots for ratings. However, I do find it interesting to contrast it with some of the recent threads on this forum ("$$$ to go pro" and "student loan") which shows a lot better judgment/advice by some players who consistently "make the money". Gambling problems are real and sad, but it would be nice if the non-moronic players (the majority) got some press, too. Anytime I mention that I play poker, there's usually an immediate (and unjustified) judgment that I'm gonna lose my house...
Obviously they always get the biggest idiots for ratings. However, I do find it interesting to contrast it with some of the recent threads on this forum ("$$$ to go pro" and "student loan") which shows a lot better judgment/advice by some players who consistently "make the money". Gambling problems are real and sad, but it would be nice if the non-moronic players (the majority) got some press, too. Anytime I mention that I play poker, there's usually an immediate (and unjustified) judgment that I'm gonna lose my house...
Hey Bean...wanna play some NL non-table stakes with me and Kai, bring the deed to your house, I need some larger and larger stakes...also, can we play at my place, I'm looking to gamble closer to home...I'll get rid of the girlfriend, it's her B-day but I'd rather gamble
Anytime I mention that I play poker, there's usually an immediate (and unjustified) judgment that I'm gonna lose my house...
That's a shame. I've experienced that too. There should be group therapy or something for 'responsible gamblers' to commiserate about society's unjustified negative views towards them. And I'm only half-kidding.
Wait, I think this thread is that very group therapy. And if it wasn't, it is now.
I never pass up on the opportunity to hang out with friends for poker instead. As a matter of fact, I plan to get together with friends on days when I even know there's a tournament I'd otherwise be playing (like Sundays) because it's all I can fit into my schedule. It's been said, and said again, and said well: there's more to life than poker. That's the truth, Ruth.
I think peers/co-workers, etc. (not real friends) used to talk behind my back about me being a gambling addict or losing everything to poker and such a lot more a year or two ago than they do now. After I won the 45K on Stars, I'm pretty sure that those who didn't know me well thought I was destined for trouble, simply because if I was WINNING 45K, they figured I had to be WAGERING 45K. Maybe some of them were jealous and looking for the negative side of things (sadly, people do that all the time.) Maybe some were genuinely concerned. Over time, I get the sense that people are less and less worried about me losing my shirt and more to poker. Those who might have been actually genuinely concerned (like, I assume, my parents) aren't as concerned anymore, if at all. Those who were being negative due to jealousy or whatever, without any ACTUAL concern, probably haven't changed, and probably never will, but that's not my problem. Nor should it be yours.
On the rare occasion that somebody actually comes out and asks me if I'm worried I'm going to lose it all or that I'm addicted (which is refreshing, because it sure beats people speculating behind my back) I don't like to throw around how much I've won at poker as proof of my 'responsible gambling' attitude. Just because a person wins a bunch of money that doesn't make them not addicted, and it doesn't mean they won't lose it all, and more, as a result of their addiction. I do, however, try to explain, as objectively as possible, that it would be pretty much impossible for me to go broke, given the way I manage my bankroll. Tournaments, for example, automatically set the amount you can lose, but this assumes that you can exercise good judgement about how much you can/should spend on one. My fairly low-risk approach to bankroll management (I wouldn't feel comfortable risking more than a few percent of my bankroll on any one tournament, as just one example) is both a good and a bad thing. It's good because I would have to try really hard to lose my poker bankroll. Really really hard. It also keeps me in check vis a vis the Flintstone's "bet bet bet bet BETBETBETBETBETBET" syndrome. It's bad because truly great players take some truly big risks that have gotten them to where they are today. BIG jumps in limits, playing a 10K tournament with a 30K bankroll, etc. These are things that some of (many of) the world's top players have done at some point in their lives. I haven't. So, I'll either never become a world-class player, or it'll take me a whole heck of a lot longer to become one. Time will tell, and I'm fine either way.
I got a bit off-topic there. OK, a lot off-topic. Back to the matter at hand: I try to explain to people that my approach to gambling would make it very difficult for me to go broke. And I try not to play too much poker. What is 'too much' is a flexible, moving target that depends mostly on what else I have going in my life at any given time. Basically, if I don't have time to go out with my friends because of poker, I'm playing too much of it. Or read, or watch movies, or jam on my bass, or play guitar, or do stupid things like laundry, or just plain chill out. And, if I show up tired for work, that spells trouble. I spent about three months showing up tired for work a while ago (a couple of years ago), and it won't happen again. Fortunately for me my job at the time was fairly low-impact. If I tried to pull that stuff now, I wouldn't be working for long.
I WISH I'd seen that Dr. Phil episode. It sounds like it was totally biased. They should have invited a "normal" winning poker player up there with him, to tell him that he has a problem, and that the problem isn't just that he 'sucks at poker'.  I loved that Daily Show episode. I posted the sequence of lines before, but they bear repeating here. (I was paraphrasing, but it's close).
Former Compulsive Gambler Turned Anti-Gambling Advocate: "I lost 3 times an annual salary several times in the 70's. The only thing in store for people who gamble is heartbreak. The longer people gamble, the more they will lose... it's that simple. My life was destroyed by gambling."
Samantha Bee (Daily Show Correspondant): (Said with a straight face) "Mm hmmm, yes, OK... but... what's it like for people who DON'T suck at gambling?"
FCGTAGA: "Excuse me?"
SB: "What's it like for people who DON'T suck at gambling?"
FCGTAGA: (looks genuinely confused and perplexed) "Uhhh.... I'm sorry... ummm... you lost me with that one"
Q - Do you spend large amounts of time gambling?
A - Well I like to play tournaments, Cash games are not my style. I play cash games, only 2 -3 hours a week and hope to play 2 tournaments for a total of 4-6 hours.
Q - Do you find yourself making bigger and bigger bets?
A - No, playing low limit poker and smaller tournaments, I am of the opinion there is some skill factor involved. I have a few times bought into bigger tournaments and didn't feel comforable. I don't step out of line too often.
Q - Do you feel frequent highs and lows?
A - Frequent is not a good descriptor. When you have a bad session when you constantly get sucked out on, sure. I always play an even game.
Q- Do you boast about winning?
A - I like to tell people I have won. Boast, no.
Q - Do you prefer gambling to family events?
A - Sometimes, If you know my family. Sunday afternoon stars, or underground tournament, I have avoided family for this.
Q - Do you seek new places to gamble close to home?
A - Absolutely, why drive 1-2 hours to wait 1-2 hours to get on a table. If the local Casinos had more tables (not a shot) and were closer I would play there.
Q - Do you have hopes of someday making a big win?
A - Sure. Unfortunately poker is a game measured by money. If you enter a 10 tourney and win, nice payday. Same if you enter the 215 at stars and win. Always nice to dream, (cough, Moneymaker, cough, cough).
I would make the statement that most of the regulars at this forum are addicted to Poker. Now just because you are addicted does not mean you will loose your house. For example a person that builds model airplanes or has the nicest lawn in the neighborhood is addicted to their hobby. How much money to they spend.
HELLO, MY NAME IS ROB, AND I AM ADDICTED TO MY HOBBY.
Q - Do you find yourself making bigger and bigger bets?
A - No, playing low limit poker and smaller tournaments, I am of the opinion there is some skill factor involved. I have a few times bought into bigger tournaments and didn't feel comforable. I don't step out of line too often.
Unfair question. I am always making bigger and bigger bets as the blinds go up. Do I have a problem??????
Great post Aces, you really seem to have your head on straight.....I only started playing a few months ago and it came to a point where I found myself down on the computer playing whenever I had a spare minute until I realized it was taking over....I have yet to lose a lot of money, I have managed my bank roll from $100 to $600 in a few months playing .50/1.00 and some bonus whoring, I don't play limits or tourneys over my head or bankroll and I think I am managing my bankroll in a good way, at least I feel good about it....but I still felt it was taking over. I have two young children and I realized I was neglecting them at times. I'd obviously much rather hang out with them and my wife then sit on my computer and play poker.....don't get me wrong, I still love to play but now I pick my times when it feels right and it's usually after everyone goes to bed. I also limit the amount of time I am on now too so I'm not beat coming into work...I felt so guilty when the kids say, 'Dad, let's go outside and play......yeah sure guys...just let Daddy finish these last few hands!'
I think people misunderstand addiction, they think only if you lose huge amounts of money, your house, car, whatever you're addicted, and that may be true and the worst case of it but I think what's more common is the situation where it starts to take priority over things that should be more important. Poker will be there for me until I die, my kids will not be kids forever.
To each their own tho, for me I am enjoying it more now, when I was playing every night it felt like such a grind. The questions I think are ridiculous tho, anyone who plays at all could answer yes to those questions and I don't think it means we're all addicted. As long as each individual is happy where they are at then I don't see a problem.
I think the responsible poker player that represents the majority of people here, represents the minority of people playing in this poker boom. I don't think it is unreasonable for people to be concerned about our poker playing habits, because from what I've seen from people I know that play poker (not people I met from poker, but people I knew before I found out they play poker) is that they either a) play with money they can't afford to lose or b) play way outside their bankroll. These people also don't know that they fall in one or both of these categories. I think most people who don't play poker think everyone falls in those categories and don't realize that you can play resposible. It's unfortunate that most people think that way and aren't willing to listen to you tell them that you play responsible, but I think you have to realize this when you start because the people I've talked to don't seem to change their opinion.
You make some good points. I've run into my fair share of 'degenerate gamblers', as well. ScottyZ for example. (Of course I'm kidding, I single him out as the ANTI-degenerate gambler).
I guess the problem that I have (and it's not really much of a problem anymore, either because of my new way of looking at the world or the world's new way of looking at me) is that often, poker players--winning or losing, degenerate or otherwise--are viewed by society as pathologically addicted degenerate gamblers. There isn't as much of a grey area as I'd like there to be. Or at least, there WASN'T as much of grey area. Now, with poker moving closer and closer to 'popular' culture, we have a bit more wiggle room. Society is recognizing that there are some very successful, 'normal' poker players, who don't gamble their lives away.
I can understand and appreciate your concern. Addiction is serious business. The concept of not being able to pay the mortgage because you had a bad night is disastrous.Â
It's unfortunate that most people think that way and aren't willing to listen to you tell them that you play responsible, but I think you have to realize this when you start because the people I've talked to don't seem to change their opinion.
I don't completely agree with that. I think a lot of it depends on who you are, and who you're talking to. If you're two COMPLETELY different people, then you're right. There's no changing their minds. It was like watching Jon Stewart talk to a politician who was against gay marriage on The Daily Show. Jon, being the fairly progressive guy that he is, sees no problem with gay marriage. It became clear that their argument was not going to be resolved. The politician said: "A child needs to be raised by a MOTHER and a FATHER". To which Jon replied: "Well, one of my parents died when I was very young so I was raised by a single parent...". It was at that point that Jon said: "Look, I can see we're never going to agree with each other, so why bother trying".
When you get two very opposite people together, neither of them is likely to change their opinion. But I think that if you make a good, logical, objective argument as to why poker isn't destroying the lives of EVERYONE who comes across it, you can change people's opinions. Provided, of course, that they're willing to listen.
I think the responsible poker player that represents the majority of people here, represents the minority of people playing in this poker boom.
I agree 100%.  I think we have a highly skewed vision of the "typical" online poker player.  After all, if there weren't people losing money online, where would all of our profit come from?  How many times have you checked your buddy list only to find some uber-fish playing limits far higher than your bankroll?  I think there's a lot of dead money out there that either: a) Doesn't care about it, and just enjoys gambling. or b) Is in denial over whether they are a winning player.  Most people on this forum  KNOW whether they are a winner or a loser (assuming they keep track of wins/losses).  I don't think the "average" poker player does keep track and hence will continue to lose.  As to the question "Am I addicted?" Hell, yes.  Is it a worse addiction than say smoking?  I doubt it, and it's definately more profitable.
I think my real addiction is to this forum. I need to reduce my post frequency, desperately. Btw, I was poorly kidding in my post about friends vs. poker.
Don't chase away the morons who play poker. They are the ONLY reason I"m a winner. Hell after reading some people's inciteful posts here I"d be in trouble LOL.
Have I ever lost my house..... yes, but that was to my non poker playing ex wife.
Comments
the questions were totally unfair tho...
Do you spend large amounts of time gambling?
Do you find yourself making bigger and bigger bets?
Do you feel frequent highs and lows?
Do you boast about winning?
Do you prefer gambling to family events?
Do you seek new places to gamble close to home?
Do you have hopes of someday making a big win?
For those thathaven't seen it. Some guy quit his job (own business) and has lost about $100 000 playing poker. His wife has MS, they have two kids and the guy's mother-in-law has been paying their mortgage.
Right out of that Daily Show episode, Phil says something to the effect of, "But you suck at Poker!" After the man claims he wants to turn pro, sell his house and buy an RV to travel around the country with his family playing in poker tournaments. The problem (one of way too many) Dr. Phil had was that this guy has yet to turn a profit playing poker. He has never brought home the money.
Funny.
Hey Bean...wanna play some NL non-table stakes with me and Kai, bring the deed to your house, I need some larger and larger stakes...also, can we play at my place, I'm looking to gamble closer to home...I'll get rid of the girlfriend, it's her B-day but I'd rather gamble
Thats true, no matter how much I tell my friends I've won and how I only play within my means theyre always getting that attitude too.
Do you choose poker over friends?
That's a shame. I've experienced that too. There should be group therapy or something for 'responsible gamblers' to commiserate about society's unjustified negative views towards them. And I'm only half-kidding.
Wait, I think this thread is that very group therapy. And if it wasn't, it is now.
I never pass up on the opportunity to hang out with friends for poker instead. As a matter of fact, I plan to get together with friends on days when I even know there's a tournament I'd otherwise be playing (like Sundays) because it's all I can fit into my schedule. It's been said, and said again, and said well: there's more to life than poker. That's the truth, Ruth.
I think peers/co-workers, etc. (not real friends) used to talk behind my back about me being a gambling addict or losing everything to poker and such a lot more a year or two ago than they do now. After I won the 45K on Stars, I'm pretty sure that those who didn't know me well thought I was destined for trouble, simply because if I was WINNING 45K, they figured I had to be WAGERING 45K. Maybe some of them were jealous and looking for the negative side of things (sadly, people do that all the time.) Maybe some were genuinely concerned. Over time, I get the sense that people are less and less worried about me losing my shirt and more to poker. Those who might have been actually genuinely concerned (like, I assume, my parents) aren't as concerned anymore, if at all. Those who were being negative due to jealousy or whatever, without any ACTUAL concern, probably haven't changed, and probably never will, but that's not my problem. Nor should it be yours.
On the rare occasion that somebody actually comes out and asks me if I'm worried I'm going to lose it all or that I'm addicted (which is refreshing, because it sure beats people speculating behind my back) I don't like to throw around how much I've won at poker as proof of my 'responsible gambling' attitude. Just because a person wins a bunch of money that doesn't make them not addicted, and it doesn't mean they won't lose it all, and more, as a result of their addiction. I do, however, try to explain, as objectively as possible, that it would be pretty much impossible for me to go broke, given the way I manage my bankroll. Tournaments, for example, automatically set the amount you can lose, but this assumes that you can exercise good judgement about how much you can/should spend on one. My fairly low-risk approach to bankroll management (I wouldn't feel comfortable risking more than a few percent of my bankroll on any one tournament, as just one example) is both a good and a bad thing. It's good because I would have to try really hard to lose my poker bankroll. Really really hard. It also keeps me in check vis a vis the Flintstone's "bet bet bet bet BETBETBETBETBETBET" syndrome. It's bad because truly great players take some truly big risks that have gotten them to where they are today. BIG jumps in limits, playing a 10K tournament with a 30K bankroll, etc. These are things that some of (many of) the world's top players have done at some point in their lives. I haven't. So, I'll either never become a world-class player, or it'll take me a whole heck of a lot longer to become one. Time will tell, and I'm fine either way.
I got a bit off-topic there. OK, a lot off-topic. Back to the matter at hand: I try to explain to people that my approach to gambling would make it very difficult for me to go broke. And I try not to play too much poker. What is 'too much' is a flexible, moving target that depends mostly on what else I have going in my life at any given time. Basically, if I don't have time to go out with my friends because of poker, I'm playing too much of it. Or read, or watch movies, or jam on my bass, or play guitar, or do stupid things like laundry, or just plain chill out. And, if I show up tired for work, that spells trouble. I spent about three months showing up tired for work a while ago (a couple of years ago), and it won't happen again. Fortunately for me my job at the time was fairly low-impact. If I tried to pull that stuff now, I wouldn't be working for long.
I WISH I'd seen that Dr. Phil episode. It sounds like it was totally biased. They should have invited a "normal" winning poker player up there with him, to tell him that he has a problem, and that the problem isn't just that he 'sucks at poker'.Â
Former Compulsive Gambler Turned Anti-Gambling Advocate: "I lost 3 times an annual salary several times in the 70's. The only thing in store for people who gamble is heartbreak. The longer people gamble, the more they will lose... it's that simple. My life was destroyed by gambling."
Samantha Bee (Daily Show Correspondant): (Said with a straight face) "Mm hmmm, yes, OK... but... what's it like for people who DON'T suck at gambling?"
FCGTAGA: "Excuse me?"
SB: "What's it like for people who DON'T suck at gambling?"
FCGTAGA: (looks genuinely confused and perplexed) "Uhhh.... I'm sorry... ummm... you lost me with that one"
Here is what I came up with.
Q - Do you spend large amounts of time gambling?
A - Well I like to play tournaments, Cash games are not my style. I play cash games, only 2 -3 hours a week and hope to play 2 tournaments for a total of 4-6 hours.
Q - Do you find yourself making bigger and bigger bets?
A - No, playing low limit poker and smaller tournaments, I am of the opinion there is some skill factor involved. I have a few times bought into bigger tournaments and didn't feel comforable. I don't step out of line too often.
Q - Do you feel frequent highs and lows?
A - Frequent is not a good descriptor. When you have a bad session when you constantly get sucked out on, sure. I always play an even game.
Q- Do you boast about winning?
A - I like to tell people I have won. Boast, no.
Q - Do you prefer gambling to family events?
A - Sometimes, If you know my family. Sunday afternoon stars, or underground tournament, I have avoided family for this.
Q - Do you seek new places to gamble close to home?
A - Absolutely, why drive 1-2 hours to wait 1-2 hours to get on a table. If the local Casinos had more tables (not a shot) and were closer I would play there.
Q - Do you have hopes of someday making a big win?
A - Sure. Unfortunately poker is a game measured by money. If you enter a 10 tourney and win, nice payday. Same if you enter the 215 at stars and win. Always nice to dream, (cough, Moneymaker, cough, cough).
I would make the statement that most of the regulars at this forum are addicted to Poker. Now just because you are addicted does not mean you will loose your house. For example a person that builds model airplanes or has the nicest lawn in the neighborhood is addicted to their hobby. How much money to they spend.
HELLO, MY NAME IS ROB, AND I AM ADDICTED TO MY HOBBY.
Unfair question. I am always making bigger and bigger bets as the blinds go up. Do I have a problem??????
... or attend a wedding when there is a $50 bounty on your head
I love the post, Devin. I have to print it out and show my wife...
I think people misunderstand addiction, they think only if you lose huge amounts of money, your house, car, whatever you're addicted, and that may be true and the worst case of it but I think what's more common is the situation where it starts to take priority over things that should be more important. Poker will be there for me until I die, my kids will not be kids forever.
To each their own tho, for me I am enjoying it more now, when I was playing every night it felt like such a grind. The questions I think are ridiculous tho, anyone who plays at all could answer yes to those questions and I don't think it means we're all addicted. As long as each individual is happy where they are at then I don't see a problem.
I guess the problem that I have (and it's not really much of a problem anymore, either because of my new way of looking at the world or the world's new way of looking at me) is that often, poker players--winning or losing, degenerate or otherwise--are viewed by society as pathologically addicted degenerate gamblers. There isn't as much of a grey area as I'd like there to be. Or at least, there WASN'T as much of grey area. Now, with poker moving closer and closer to 'popular' culture, we have a bit more wiggle room. Society is recognizing that there are some very successful, 'normal' poker players, who don't gamble their lives away.
I can understand and appreciate your concern. Addiction is serious business. The concept of not being able to pay the mortgage because you had a bad night is disastrous.Â
I don't completely agree with that. I think a lot of it depends on who you are, and who you're talking to. If you're two COMPLETELY different people, then you're right. There's no changing their minds. It was like watching Jon Stewart talk to a politician who was against gay marriage on The Daily Show. Jon, being the fairly progressive guy that he is, sees no problem with gay marriage. It became clear that their argument was not going to be resolved. The politician said: "A child needs to be raised by a MOTHER and a FATHER". To which Jon replied: "Well, one of my parents died when I was very young so I was raised by a single parent...". It was at that point that Jon said: "Look, I can see we're never going to agree with each other, so why bother trying".
When you get two very opposite people together, neither of them is likely to change their opinion. But I think that if you make a good, logical, objective argument as to why poker isn't destroying the lives of EVERYONE who comes across it, you can change people's opinions. Provided, of course, that they're willing to listen.
I agree 100%.  I think we have a highly skewed vision of the "typical" online poker player.  After all, if there weren't people losing money online, where would all of our profit come from?  How many times have you checked your buddy list only to find some uber-fish playing limits far higher than your bankroll?  I think there's a lot of dead money out there that either: a) Doesn't care about it, and just enjoys gambling. or b) Is in denial over whether they are a winning player.  Most people on this forum  KNOW whether they are a winner or a loser (assuming they keep track of wins/losses).  I don't think the "average" poker player does keep track and hence will continue to lose.  As to the question "Am I addicted?" Hell, yes.  Is it a worse addiction than say smoking?  I doubt it, and it's definately more profitable.
bet bet bet bet bet bet BETBETBETBETBETBETBET
ScottyZ
Have I ever lost my house..... yes, but that was to my non poker playing ex wife.
Well she played her cards right.
Team Canuck Poker is ALL ABOUT playing poker AND hanging out with friends. This way, you get to be a DEGENERATE GAMBLER and still HAVE friends.
Bwahahahahaha. My plan is working perfectly.