Brantford Charity Casino Poker Tournament
Here are the details I know...
The Ultimate Poker Challenge 2004
Brantford Charity Casino
June 22nd - 27th
$100,000 Prize pool
Qualifying rounds June 22 - 26th. Final round June 27th.
Entry Fee $200 + $25
Space is Limited
Must be 19 yrs of age or older.
For more information please call 1-888-694-6946.
40 Icomm Drive, Brantford, Ontario N3S 7S9
The Ultimate Poker Challenge 2004
Brantford Charity Casino
June 22nd - 27th
$100,000 Prize pool
Qualifying rounds June 22 - 26th. Final round June 27th.
Entry Fee $200 + $25
Space is Limited
Must be 19 yrs of age or older.
For more information please call 1-888-694-6946.
40 Icomm Drive, Brantford, Ontario N3S 7S9
Comments
I called the 1-888 number for more information, and they wouldn't give me any. The lady just kept saying: "We can't give out any information, please call back at the beginning of June".
I was curious about:
Whether or not there are rebuys.
Exactly how the 'qualifying rounds/final round' structure works (ie: how many tables get played per day and how many players 'advance').
When you can register, and how.
The start times.
Starting chips and blind structure.
If anyone has answers to any of these questions, I'd appreciate it.
Regards,
all_aces
stp
Whether or not there are rebuys.
Exactly how the 'qualifying rounds/final round' structure works (ie: how many tables get played per day and how many players 'advance').
When you can register, and how.
The start times.
Starting chips and blind structure.
If anyone has answers to any of these questions, I'd appreciate it.
Was just there yesterday talking to one of the execs., he had mentioned about the pre-lims. Apparently 5 tables each day , with the top 2 from each table advancing to the final day. No mention on structure of blinds and reservations can be done over the phone. Really top heavy pay-out , $50,000 first place. They may or may not ( still not settled ) have the final table covered on TSN.
doh
This was what I was wondering, as well. It makes me think that this is a rebuy and/or add-on tournament.
Regards,
all_aces
ps: Thanks for the info, mac.
P.S. Sloth - I will write POKERSUP and PLIES.COM across both my hands in big black marker if you pay my entry fee.
I'll update y'all with anything new...
Dave, are you going to play in the tournament? If so, please reconsider, I want a chance to win...
AK*1: I'll pay your entry fee myself if you permanently tattoo ALL on one hand and ACES on the other.
Regards,
all_aces
hmmm.... not sure how we'd do the underscore though....
Or you could always to go Jay's...since I know him, just haven't told him who I am yet :twisted:
How about on the butt instead? ALL on one cheek and ACES on the other.
The underscore problem solves itself.
ScottyZ
$100,000 prize pool ***
No Limit Hold'em
$200 + $25 buy-in
$200 rebuys until the first break (you can rebuy any time you are below a full starting stack)
$200 add-on at the first break
Qualifying round: 5 days, 5 tables per day. So a maximum of 50 people start a day. They play the day (normal tournament style, keeping tables balanced, etc) until they are down to the final 10 (or possibly less, if more than 1 person bust out at the same time). The final 10 move on to the final round (chip counts are preserved.. this is NOT a satellite)
Final Round: At most 50 people start. Play until there is one winner. They make a point of saying that they will NOT assist in deals, and that play will continue until one player has all the chips, and prizes will be distributed according to the prize structure.
*** The $100,000 prize pool. Actually, here is how it will work. If they get 187 or fewer entrants (I have NO CLUE where they got this 187 number from), the prize pool will be the sum of all the buy-ins, add-ons, and rebuys. If they get 188 or more entrants, the prize pool will be $100,000. Not $100,000 or more... it will be $100,000. If the buy-ins, add-ons, and rebuys total $120,000, the prize pool is still $100,000. At least, that's what the lady at the winners circle told me, and she was looking at some printout of all the rules. This is something that I want to confirm with one of the tournament directors (both of them are day shift supervisors/pit bosses, and I was there at night), but if it's true, all I can say is, WHAT A RIP OFF. If they get 250 entrants (which I assume they will), you can probably count on at least 600 total buy-ins (including rebuys and add-ons) which would mean that the prize pool SHOULD be $120,000.
Payout Structure: If they get 188 or more players (there's that magic number again), top 10 spots pay, with the winner taking down 40% (ie $40,000). If they get 187 or fewer entrants, they will pay the top 6 spots.
Pre-Registration: Begins June 1. Can be done by phone or in person. You have to pay when you preregister. Visa or Mastercard are accepted.
You have to pay the whole $225 when you pre-register. As well as a seat for one of the qualifying day, you also receive a buffet comp and a T-shirt.
You can pre-register for as many of the qualifying days as you want. But, obviously, you can only qualify once. Not sure what happens if you register for 2 or more days, and qualify on the first day. In the pamphlet, mo mention is made of you getting your $200 back (then again, no mention is made of you NOT getting it back). To quote the pamphlet: "Players can preregister for as many qualifying rounds as they wish but are limited to qualifying for the final day only once". That's all the information they give.
Personally, I won't be playing because I don't like rebuy tournaments, so I probably wouldn't play even if the whole thing about the prize pool were cleared up. Anyway, that's all the info that I have. If you want more, you could try calling the casino now that they have officially announced the tournament.
Keith
Wow, it seems so weird. Why not just have the prize pool be whatever the total buy-ins/re-buys are. Oh well...
Thanks for the info, Keith.
That structure is pretty weird. I hate rebuy tourneys because the rich will have a slight advantage over the non-rebuyers, like myself. However, I'm still going to play in it just because I love the game that much and want to see how I fare up to other local players.
I'll ask them about the tourney tomorrow when I go, to see if I can gather any more different information.
I agree with your assessment of "rip off" if the descrpition of the prize pool you were given is accurate. It would be reasonable to advertise the prize pool as $100,000 *minimum*, but if it is as it was described to you, where is all that extra money going?
Plus, if the prize pool is already set at exactly $100,000, what the heck does $200+$25 mean?
I also don't care for re-buy tournaments per say, in most cases because they are designed with initial stacks too low compared to the blinds. However, it is possible that (assuming you take the rebuy, and the add-on if you need it) the blinds could be such that you get a lot of play. Needless to say, for the $625 (or more) I might spend to enter, I'm going to want a *lot* of play; namely, a reasonably skill-based outcome.
I also dislike the double shootout format. I realize that this is pretty much all you can do with a limited number of dealers/tables, but I played in a large double shootout once and just felt there was too much luck involved. But again, the initial stack size & blind structure are key to determining how much play you're going to get, whatever the exact format is.
In any case, I think it's great to see that they're at least trying something like this, and hopefully we'll see tournaments become a more regular thing at Brantford.
ScottyZ
I don't think you will, I know alot of employees there and they tell me the the majority of the people are against it. It glogs the casino with railbirds who don't play and becuase of the size of the place means less patrons playing, less money coming in, less tipping and so on. Basically the casino takes a loss during such events, not like the Slot Tournaments many casinos offer (just crazy, check out Windors it is 4 times the money of any poker Tourny in Ontario). BTW: The casino hates the poker tables all together, they just don't make the money on them... but they give the husbands something to do while the wives are at the slots (no offense to anyone) making the casino money.
Interesting. When I was there yesterday I was told that they were planning on adding more poker tables. I could believe it. The poker room was jammed and the rest of the casino was DEAD. I could have walked up and played any game in the casino with no wait, but I had to wait 2 hours for a poker game. When I left at a little after 2am (this is on a Wednesday night) there were still 8 tables going in the poker room, and you could have heard a pin drop in the rest of the casino.
Obviously, during peak times, just about any game makes more money than poker, but I would be surprised if poker did not do pretty well if you average it over the long term (ie, peak times and dead times) since the poker games are going 24/7. I was talking to a regular (professional) $20/$40 player about this a few months ago. He was saying, he plays 50 hours a week. That means that he (personally) pays the casino $700 a week in session fee. For this he gets nothing in the way of comps. I wonder how many individuals lose an AVERAGE of $700 a week? For example, for a roulette player to lose that much (I use roulette because it is easy to calculate; the house edge is the same no matter how you play) he would have to wager a total of $13,300 over the course of an average week.
Besides (and this is a key point here), do the people working at the casino really care how much money the casino makes? The casino is run by the government, and the people working there don't see an extra dime of the profit. Poker (particularly the lower limits) probably generates more in tips (which the people working there DO care about) than any other game in the casino.
Keith
Poker certainly isn't the best use of space from the casino's point of view. 8)
Obviously the employees who profit from tipping will prefer table games (including poker) over slots; however, it's rarely these employees who choose the casino layout in terms of what games are offered.
Probably so, but even still, there is plenty of incentive for the employees of a particular casino to maximize that casino's profits. There's nothing special about it being government-owned, or a casino in particular---employee profit-sharing is pretty rare on the whole.
Almost. There is one sub-optimal play in (American) Roulette.
ScottyZ
How much space is dedicated to slots in ontario casinos? How much is dedicated to poker?
Obviously slots make a ton of money here (since they only pay out 87%... slots in vegas can hit 99%) but they also dedicate a LOT of room to slots, and not so much to poker. So you can't just compare the two numbers.
Also, what is the incentive for casino employees to maximize casino profits? I don't see it. They work for the government and they are union. I cannot think of a better environment to foster complete apathy.
Keith
So that (a) the casino they currently work at is not shut down and/or (b) they don't lose their individual job due to a lack of performance.
ScottyZ
Haven't you ever watched Office Space? That will make you work just hard enough to not get fired.
Seriously, unless if the casino is actually in danger of losing money (and that is not even close to being the case) it makes no difference to the employee if they make a few more or a few less million. The casino is not going anywhere. The emplyoees aren't served by maximizing profits... just by ensuring that profits are non-negative. With no real competition, I don't think that it would be possible to screw things up enough to put the casino anywhere near the break-even point.
Keith
As for structure, I am quite certain there will not be a lot of play in this tourney, at least not withought a rebuy and or addon.
Scotty I understand if you want a lot of play for your money so that it isnt very short lived and you almost feel you got your moneys worth.
But lets be honest, if you hope to make the final day/money your only hope is a crapshoot.
GL guys see you there.
Kev
If the prize pool is actually capped at 100k (which I haven't yet confirmed) then they are completely robbing the players. If they get 600 total buy-ins (seems reasonable for a 250 player tourney with rebuys and add-ons) that means that they are only paying out 100k out of 120k.
All of a sudden, $200+$25 turns into $167 + $58, and rebuys/add-ons being $167+$33. This is a pretty steep fee. I probably won't play in it, but I wonder if the side games will be any better? I heard from a dealer that they won't be having the tournament in the poker room, but that they'll be fencing off an area where there are currently some blackjack tables or something. (Not sure if it's true, but that's what I was told) So hopefully all 9 tables in the poker room will be going with some good action... lots of people on tilt after busting out of the tourney when their AA is cracked by 53 ;-) Send 'em to the rail, Kev!
Keith
I can now confirm this. Prize pool is capped at $100,000, regardless of the number of rebuys or add-ons. When I mentioned that I thought that this was a rip-off, I was told "well we are a charity casino" and "we have to make some money out of it". Translation: "we are the government so we don't feel bad about ripping you off". They didn't seem to realize that by pocketing someone's $200 rebuy, they are taking money (technically equity) from EVERYONE in the tournament since it effectively devalues everyone's chips. Either that or they don't care. They are basically treating this as a game against the house, not a game against other players.
I still can't figure out why anyone would play in this. Turning Stone is not that far away.
Clarification: Early bird registration begins at 9am on June 1. You cannot pre-register by phone until June 2. There seems to be a decent chance that all 250 seats will sell out on June 1. So if you want to play, show up at 9am on June 1. Otherwise you may be disappointed. Make sure to bring your ID no matter how old you are.. you need it to register. You MAY NOT pre-register for someone else. Also make sure to bring $225 for each day that you want to register for, or a Visa/Mastercard with some credit left on it.
One you qualify for the final round if you are registered for more qualifying rounds, you have 2 choices:
1. Sell your seat to someone
2. Get a $200 refund for each seat you have left (you lose your $25 registration fee for each day).
So, say you pre-register for all 5 days. This will cost you $1125. ($225 per day for 5 days). Then say you qualify on the very first day. You can sell your 4 remaining seats to other people, or get $800 back ($200 per seat), or sell some and get some others refunded.. whatever you want. For those of you who are into ticket scalping and ripping off your fellow man, you could probably get more than $200 per seat if the thing DOES sell out quickly, since presumably, people will be desperate to play.
I hope that this information is useful for those of you who plan on playing. I also confirmed that the tournament WILL NOT take place in the poker room... it will apparently take place in that area where they have the higher-stakes blackjack tables. So hopefully all 9 poker room tables will be going with better-than-usual action. Good luck to anyone who decides to play, and try to tilt some people and bust them out so I can make some money in the side games ;-)
Keith