Howard Lederer. Please explain his move.

I can't recall what series it is. Howard had won the first game.

At the table was Phil Ivy, Barry Greenstien, Cloutier, Doyle Brunson, Howard Lederer, Chan, Gus Hansan and "Chip" Reese.

Howard had taken a hit on chip stack and on a hand with K7 (preflop I believe) he pushed all in (sorry, I don't recall if there were any raises) with Gus Hansan still to act. Gus called (had AK) and won the hand knocking Howard out.

I let out a loud "WTF" (censored cause the kids were around) and the announcers started saying how they disagreed with the move. I completely missed Howard justifying the move in the brief post mortem.

If anyone had watched it or knows about what happened can they give some insight as to why Howard did what he did when he did? I don't think it was a case of being so short stacked that he had to make a move.

DISCLAIMER: Howard Lederer is a great amazing player. Pre deal he would make me his poker bitch. I'm just a bit confused as to what he was doing with this particular hand.

Comments

  • This is that poker superstars program on sportsnet right now. It was in game 5 of a seven game series (don't quite understand how the games relate). Gus Hanson had made it to heads-up in the previous 4 games, winning 3 with Lederer winning the other. Gus plays a unique style where TJ referred to 75o as a "big hand" for Gus when he paired the 7 on the flop. So basically Howard had decided to put Gus all-in on any raise Gus made to narrow down the number of hands Gus would play against him. It was working a little bit, Howard took down a couple of medium sized pots without any confrontation. But it backfired a little because Gus had been getting cards. Gus had to know that Howard didn't have AA every time he went all-in, because he was always going all-in against a Gus raise. You get very interesting strategies when you pit a table of pros against each other in a multi-game format.

    Anyone know more about how the series actually works?
  • Sorry, this description is going to suck...


    I believe they're doing a few tourneys to lead up to a "grand daddy" tournament, where their chip stacks are based on their previous placings, so first place earns you several thousand chips for the final, where eigth gets you maybe a few hunderd. I think each of these guys plunked down some cash, and then the winner of the big one takes the lion's share.

    I think mostly it was a draw at the fact that you can see some of the greatest go at each other for a few weeks in a row.

    Mark
  • Gus plays a unique style where TJ referred to 75o as a "big hand" for Gus when he paired the 7 on the flop.

    No, no. It was 75 s0000ted.

    No-limit hand analysis is difficult in isolation.

    My interpretation was that Gus had been raising so many pots that Howard was, by way of counter-strategy, re-raising Gus with a lot of hands, often all-in.

    Don't forget, this is TV coverage of poker. What you didn't see was all of the times when it went (Gus) raise, (Howard) re-raise all-in, (Gus) fold. I'll bet Howard made this kind of play with much worse hands than K7.

    Howard's play also generated a side benefit of creating a "wacky" table image when going up against Gus. In a different episode, Howard makes a big all-in raise with AK. Gus calls him with KJ, probably even a reasonable play itself considered as a counter-counter-strategy to Howard moving all-in on him a lot.

    ScottyZ
  • beanie42 wrote:

    Any chance you can post the article (with full props to cardplayer) for us people protected from certain parts of the evil internet?
  • Try pasting the URL into Google, and you should get a link to Google's cache of that page:

    http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:BQjWvCFpzzUJ:www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/showarticle.php%3Fa_id%3D14491%26m_id%3D65554+&hl=en

    As far as I can tell, this article has nothing to do with the tournament that the OP was talking about.

    ScottyZ
  • I also remember this hand and what Howard had said afterwards.  He basically was justifying his play and stating what TJ had said.  Gus will raise with any two cards and with HL re-raising another 50K the majority of the time Gus will release his hand.  Howard got unlucky to not even have two live cards. I think in this format you can play this way in the first 6 rounds of play but would need to be more selective in the final round.

    stp
  • Format of the 7 game tournament is as follows...

    Your placing in Games 1 and 2 determines the number of chips you recieve at the start of Game 3. (For example, first place in Games 1 and 2 earns 250,000 chips while last gets 32,000.. so, if you placed first in game 1 and last in game 2, you'd start Game 3 with 282,000 chips)

    Games 4 and 5, similarly determine the starting chips for game 6.

    Finally, your placing in Games 3 and 6 determine the number of chips you start with in the final game number 7, which is the one for the cash. So, the only real purpose of the first 6 games is earning you chips for the final game.
  • beanie42 wrote:
    Any chance you can post the article (with full props to cardplayer) for us people protected from certain parts of the evil internet?

    From http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/showarticle.php?a_id=14491&m_id=65554:

    The man behind the creation of Poker Superstars is Henry Orenstein. (He’s also the guy who patented the under-the-table camera for poker, whereby viewers can see the players’ holecards.) Assisting Henry in putting Poker Superstars together were two longtime poker professionals, Mori Eskandani and Eric Drache. Their mission was to give players exposure, create multiple opportunities for them to play, and create exciting poker for television. Mission accomplished.

    Let me explain why this was such a unique event. First, the buy-in was $40,000 per player, but $750,000 was added to the prize pool. That was good. The format consisted of a series of tournaments in which players qualified to advance, and viewers will be able to follow these players throughout the year.

    The structure was designed to enhance play and create fast-moving, exciting poker on television. The blinds went up every 12 minutes, which meant you had to play. That may seem like a total crapshoot to you, but by utilizing a 30-second “shot clock” (the amount of time that players had to act on their hands), it wasn’t as bad as you might think. For the record, I love the 30-second shot clock. It makes for a much better poker game. (This “shot clock” reminded me of my Army days, when my drill sergeant used to say, “There are two kinds of bayonet fighters, the quick and the dead.”)

    To start, all players played six sixhanded tournaments with randomly drawn opponents, and were awarded points (10, 7, 5, 3, 1, 0) according to where they finished, from first to sixth. The top 16 point-getters at the end of the six matches (the regular season) advanced to the next round (the playoffs).

    In the playoffs, the 16 qualifiers were divided into four groups of four players, and were seeded according to their points from the regular season. Each group then played two freezeouts with the same lineup, and the top two point-getters from each group moved on to the final eight. First place in each of these freezeouts was worth 10 points; second place, 7 points; third place, 4 points; and fourth place, 0 points.
  • ScottyZ wrote:
    As far as I can tell, this article has nothing to do with the tournament that the OP was talking about.
    Then what is on sportsnet right now? I like having so much to watch, but I'm starting to lose track.
  • beanie42 wrote:
    Then what is on sportsnet right now? I like having so much to watch, but I'm starting to lose track.

    It's the one Zithal outlined.

    Since we're in Canada, it may very well be the "Poker Superstars Invitational" or whatever that's on Sportsnet right now, but probably it's not the up-to-date season. (The current season might be the one whose format is outlined in the Card Player article.)

    ScottyZ
  • ScottyZ wrote:
    Don't forget, this is TV coverage of poker. What you didn't see was all of the times when it went (Gus) raise, (Howard) re-raise all-in, (Gus) fold. I'll bet Howard made this kind of play with much worse hands than K7.

    I agree with this statement, but they actually had a snippet of an iterview with HL where he was talking about how to play against Gus. They did show a lot of these raise-fold hands to make that point. But you are correct, this was probably also done for the sake of TV and to make a story out of that. This is actually the exact reason why I hate survivor .... so why do I still watch poker?
  • This...
    ...on a hand with K7 (preflop I believe) he pushed all in (sorry, I don't recall if there were any raises) with Gus Hansan still to act.

    was likely the reason.  With those people you mentioned at the table he must have figured he was short stacked enough.  He had to push to get lucky to try to win it.  Well....he had a K didn't he?
  • ScottyZ wrote:
    beanie42 wrote:
    Then what is on sportsnet right now?  I like having so much to watch, but I'm starting to lose track.

    It's the one Zithal outlined.

    Since we're in Canada, it may very well be the "Poker Superstars Invitational" or whatever that's on Sportsnet right now, but probably it's not the up-to-date season. (The current season might be the one whose format is outlined in the Card Player article.)

    ScottyZ
    [/quote

    ya exactly, this: http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/showarticle.php?a_id=14491&m_id=65554

    isn't what's on in Canada, unfortunately
  • Actually, PokerSuperstars II is currently running on FoxSportsnet (I watch it on my dishnet. ;-)). It's a great tourney...some different faces (Hansen is not there, for one), and they're up to match 21 of 24 matches in the preliminary round. How they're doing it this time is 24 matches, with 6 players per match. You get 10, 7, 5, 3, 1, and 0 points based on your finish in each round. After 24 rounds, the top 12 (or 16, can't recall at the moment) advance to the next round, where chips are based on points (I believe 25000 in chips per point), and then play down to subsequent rounds. It's a good tournament...been some interesting play so far.
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