Ruling at a home game.

kalozdi

Hey guys,
I would like your opinion on a hand that came up at a home game I host. Very small stakes, .25/.25 blinds $20 buy in NL cash game. I limp utg +2 with 5 7 off like the fish i am and about 5 others call, flop comes 468 rainbow which is obviously a good flop for me, UTG bets $2 and I min raise to $4 two fold and another players makes it $14, utg folds and I move in for about $45 total. he goes in the tank for a couple minutes shows me his pocket sixes while he says "well i came here to gamble" we run the turn and river the board doesn't pair and I count my chips again to give an exact total and he tells me that he folded. Out of the ten players at the table only one other player thought he had folded and the rest thought 100% that he had called. This is a small stakes game with rather new players so I am not too strict about string bets or official casino rules. The person in question i believe is an honest guy so I didn;t say anything and took him at his word and we continued playing. Although today, after I have had some time to think about it I am having some doubts. Anyone have any thoughts for me? In the end I think it was my error as i should of confirmed his call before I showed my hand

ScottyZ

shows me his pocket sixes while he says "well i came here to gamble"

This is a call with no question.

The person in question i believe is an honest guy

I can't say I agree with that assessment. I am 99.9% sure that your opponent would have happily accepted your all-in bet had the board in fact paired.

ScottyZ

Graham

not a chance he meant to fold his set unless his cards touched the muck, they weren't folded IMO...but then again, he hadn't pushed his $$ in yet? Should always wait until the action is complete before resuming the dealing. If he hadn't at least BEGUN to place his chips in the middle, he may get away with it. He didn't say "call" or push his chips in...although 100% he would have before the turn and river if you'd said "so, do you call?"


"Well, I came here to make some money, so I fold my SET!"


if your friend REALLY meant to toss middle set with that flop in those stakes then he is a far better player than most I know.

Studs99

Yup, agreeing with the rest on here, he called plain and simple. I can't see a guy folding three 6's after a flop like that.

BBC Z

"well i came here to gamble"

I consider this a neutral non-binding statement..

I think it was my error as i should of confirmed his call before I showed my hand

Exactly.

Graham

i think we're all saying that he's lying, but you're not gonna be able to get the $$ for it now anyway, and in portion it's your fault (or the dealers) sorry to say.

kalozdi

"i think we're all saying that he's lying, but you're not gonna be able to get the $$ for it now anyway, and in portion it's your fault (or the dealers) sorry to say."

Thanks for the responses guys; I know i was at fault in the situation and i was the dealer at the time too.

Flint Bones

i think the guy called, however, I am curious as to his reaction as you were doing the turn and river. I think this story is missing how he handled you turning over your cards (5 7, really?) and the rest of the action. At what point did he say he folded?

Last question, what made the other one person believe he folded, are they good friends?

wader

If he has the balls to cheat in this spot he's doing it in other spots. No return invite for this yahoo.

Wader

stoneskn

your reaction to the event was very mature and very modest. Had I been there, I would have applauded your sincerity, honesty and goodwill. Still, I think a binding agreement would have been "I call". But he didn't, nor did he imply a call by moving in his chips. NOBODY can tell the future, but now you can steer it a bit by including some rules next time you (or someone you know) hosts a game, make sure people make their decisions obviously, like calling, or raising.

literation

stoneskn wrote:

your reaction to the event was very mature and very modest. Had I been there, I would have applauded your sincerity, honesty and goodwill.

Well said.  Unfortunately, I only hinted at this in a subsequent email to him.  I was involved in this unpleasant situation.  At least I was out of the hand.

stoneskn

""The person in question i believe is an honest guy""

I can't say I agree with that assessment. I am 99.9% sure that your opponent would have happily accepted your all-in bet had the board in fact paired.

hmm..very likely

Undercover

This is a relatively small loss to find out his real character. I agree with the others and wouldn't invite him back to the game.
Unless he's a shitty player in which case I'd raise the stakes and crush the fucker.

ScottyZ

Here's another way to think about it.

Suppose the guy with the 66 is not shooting an angle. Why would such a player not attempt to stop the action when the dealer started burning and turning more cards? That is, why wouldn't he interrupt the action and say something like "Wait! I haven't decided if I'm calling yet."?

Sitting there in silence while the dealing proceeds is very clear evidence that the player is making an attempt to cheat, which turns out to have been successful.

Here is the alternate universe that never happened: Board pairs. Opponent convinces everyone that he was obviously calling by turning up his cards and saying "I came here to gamble". The same weak minds that decided that the play was not a call in the original universe are easily persuaded that the statement does constitute a call in the alternative universe.

Quite a clever plot actually, though completely devoid of morality. The opponent may well have a bright future in corporate North America.

The most disturbing thing here is that this cheating was almost certainly pre-meditated. No-one is smart enough to devise this scheme in real-time.

ScottyZ

zero

Lets burn him at the stake.

ScottyZ

zero wrote:

Lets burn him at the stake.

Too harsh I think.

Just burn him in the garage.

Okay, okay. Still a little too harsh?

I'd probably just avoid playing poker with this player again as best I could. Or, as Undercover points out, if he's a real donkey (or if there is some other compelling reason to play in a game he is in), I'd play poker with him, and keep my eyes and brains open for this kind of BS in the future.

ScottyZ

teach

UNdercover's response is BY FAR the funniest.

Dorez

The rule in most rooms I've been in, is that if you show your cards, you fold. (devil's advocate)

Regardless, it does sound pretty suspicious.