nice little hand on UB 5 minutes ago

Graham

I was obviously hoping that some of the other players had made str8s or flushes:

I'm Monty.


Getting Hand History Information...

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Hand #948108-6712 at Eskilstuna (No Limit Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 29/Jan/04 18:12:09

nsmith4 is at seat 0 with $2.75.
marketman56 is at seat 1 with $19.50.
Monty Python is at seat 2 with $90.25.
DeathLife is at seat 3 with $55.
mc d is at seat 4 with $41.
jrod76 is at seat 5 with $29.
zamera is at seat 6 with $51.
crnivuk22 is at seat 7 with $46.75.
Amsbury is at seat 8 with $43.75.
MISS KAIRA is at seat 9 with $56.
The button is at seat 5.

zamera posts the small blind of $.50.
crnivuk22 posts the big blind of $1.

nsmith4: -- --
marketman56: -- --
Monty Python: 9c 9s
DeathLife: -- --
mc d: -- --
jrod76: -- --
zamera: -- --
crnivuk22: -- --
Amsbury: -- --
MISS KAIRA: -- --

Pre-flop:

Amsbury folds. MISS KAIRA folds. nsmith4 folds.
marketman56 calls. Monty Python calls. DeathLife
calls. mc d folds. jrod76 folds. zamera calls.
crnivuk22 raises to $2. marketman56 calls. Monty
Python calls. DeathLife calls. zamera calls.

Flop (board: 8d 9h Th):

zamera checks. crnivuk22 bets $2. marketman56
calls. Monty Python calls. DeathLife calls.
zamera calls.

Turn (board: 8d 9h Th 9d):

zamera checks. crnivuk22 checks. marketman56
checks. Monty Python checks. DeathLife checks.

River (board: 8d 9h Th 9d 6h):

zamera checks. crnivuk22 checks. marketman56 bets
$4.25. Monty Python raises to $15. DeathLife folds.
zamera folds. crnivuk22 folds. marketman56 calls.




Showdown:

Monty Python shows 9c 9s.
Monty Python has 9c 9s 9h Th 9d: four nines.
marketman56 mucks cards.
(marketman56 has 2c Ts.)


Hand #948108-6712 Summary:

$2.50 is raked from a pot of $50.
Monty Python wins $47.50 with four nines.

---

then less than 5 minutes later (I was about to press 'submit' on the hand above)


Hand #948108-6721 at Eskilstuna (No Limit Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 29/Jan/04 18:19:53

saucychick is at seat 0 with $20.
marketman56 is at seat 1 with $19.25.
Monty Python is at seat 2 with $125.75.
DeathLife is at seat 3 with $43.50.
mc d is at seat 4 with $60.
atshering is at seat 5 with $56.75.
zamera is at seat 6 with $42.
crnivuk22 is at seat 7 with $30.75.
Amsbury is at seat 8 with $55.
Bikerfish is at seat 9 with $99.
The button is at seat 4.

atshering posts the small blind of $.50.
zamera posts the big blind of $1.

marketman56: -- --
Monty Python: 2c 2s
DeathLife: -- --
mc d: -- --
atshering: -- --
zamera: -- --
crnivuk22: -- --
Amsbury: -- --
Bikerfish: -- --

Pre-flop:

crnivuk22 raises to $2. Amsbury folds. Bikerfish
folds. marketman56 folds. Monty Python calls.
DeathLife folds. mc d folds. atshering folds.
zamera calls.

Flop (board: Kd 7h 2h):

zamera checks. crnivuk22 bets $6.50. Monty Python
raises to $26. zamera folds. crnivuk22 goes all-in
for $28.75. Monty Python calls.

Turn (board: Kd 7h 2h 8d):

(no action in this round)


River (board: Kd 7h 2h 8d 4h):

(no action in this round)




Showdown:

crnivuk22 shows Ks Qc.
crnivuk22 has Ks Qc Kd 7h 8d: a pair of kings.
Monty Python shows 2c 2s.
Monty Python has 2c 2s Kd 2h 8d: three deuces.


Hand #948108-6721 Summary:

$3 is raked from a pot of $64.
Monty Python wins $61 with three deuces.


about $100 US bones in 6 minutes ain't bad.

ScottyZ

Hmmm... you slowplayed the flop in the first hand, and played if fast on the second. I might have done it the other way around. The first flop looks a whole lot more threatening than the second.

And you get called by T2 on the first hand?!? Heeeeeeere fishyfishyfishy

ScottyZ

Graham

I slowplayed because that flop could have given a lot of draws to a lot of players...

I figured if I pounded it, I would make the pot juicy enough for them to call...and if someone had an up and down str8 draw, i don't want them to call.

ScottyZ

I slowplayed because that flop could have given a lot of draws to a lot of players...

Ummm... I thought that was the reason to *not* slowplay.

...and if someone had an up and down str8 draw, i don't want them to call.

Exactly. Raise and make it too expensive for them to call. Or, if you think they will call no matter what you bet, make it a mistake (in terms of pot/implied odds) for them to call you.

ScottyZ

vinsanity

I wouldn't slowplay either of those 2 hands but I don't play much NL (yet) so take that for what its worth. If I was to slowplay, I agree with ScottyZ that the first flop is much more dangerous than the second one with 5 players in the hand and extra straight draws verus 3 players in the second hand and only a flush draw.

Anonymous

So, Scott...let me ask you this...


you hold 10h Jc

flop is

7h 8h 9h

EP bets $40 into you,...you're going to pop it, right?...then maybe I have to lay down my set...I'd rather take a cheap (free) turn to see if my hand improves (like a boat) while making someone elses draw as well (like a flush)

with the board the way it was, I didn't want to put myself in a position by opening the betting in EP to have to be forced to think about folding...fact is...I figure that anyone of the other 4 players could have the 6h or the 10h or the ah and no matter what I bet they would call...maybe they already have the flush..I'd rather check and if someone bets small enough for me to draw and improve I'll do it.


If I bet $100 some looney with Ah 4s is going to say: "wow, if i hit, that's a big ass pot!" and that's all they focous on...heck, being online, he may call when he meant to fold by hitting the wrong button.

I've had a large number of beats putting my $$ in with the best of it on the flop...I'm sure everyone has...I had a gut feeling on the flop that while I knew I was good on the flop, I would be outdrawn...

Just curious, how much would you have bet?

Graham

oh...forgot to login the above post is mine of course

ScottyZ

Wasn't the board in the first hand only two suited?

If I was you in the first hand, I would have raised it by around $10-$15 on the flop, with the intention of moving all-in on the turn if no scare card falls on the turn.

You can't let a single J or 7 chase you so cheaply. Your hand is vulnerable enough that you don't mind picking up the pot on the flop. And you want to charge these chasers a big price if they do call.

Do you think you are a little to hung up with a fear of bad beats? You seem to be letting bad players' bad plays steer you away from making good plays yourself.

The worst thing might be that this is a feedback loop. Playing to cautiously because you "know" people will draw out on you, will result in more people drawing out on you (likely becasue you let them draw too cheaply).

Although getting the money in when you have the best of it and losing is part of poker, getting the money in when you have the best of it is the essence of good poker. Your decisions matter, not the outcomes of those decisions.

ScottyZ

Graham

" I would have raised it by around $10-$15 on the flop, with the intention of moving all-in on the turn if no scare card falls on the turn"

See, that's my point right there...you said "if no scare card falls on the turn"...why not save that $10-15 with the flop the way it was, think of how many scare cards there were..any heart, any 6, any J, whereas I need an 8, a 10 or a 9. I almost don't want to bet hoping that someone with Ah 2h will get their flush draw when i make my boat, but make it easier and cheaper on myself to fold if a heart, 6 or J falls


"Do you think you are a little to hung up with a fear of bad beats?"

No, just cautious. We have different styles...I would never fold AQ os where I could limp, and you would've tested the waters with your set on this board.

If the flop were different...say 4c 9d 7h and you had your set of 9s...do you bet out or do you check and cross your fingers someone makes 2 pair?

ScottyZ

you said "if no scare card falls on the turn"...why not save that $10-15 with the flop the way it was

I guess I want to *make* the $10-$15 if a brick falls on the turn and I can stack in. There are more (but not a *lot* more admittedly) bricks than scare cards. But as I mentioned before I also like not even *getting* to the turn card with that flop.

One more thing, if you check (or call a small bet) on the flop, how do you play the turn?

If the flop were different...say 4c 9d 7h and you had your set of 9s...do you bet out or do you check and cross your fingers someone makes 2 pair?

I would almost always check this one. There are no significant threats. This has a something to do with my player image. I realize that other (good) players realize that I can often be pushed off hands. So I'm sometimes looking for someone to commit too heavily to a bluff.

I'd occasionally even bet out fairly strongly with this hand. Often the most straightforward play is the most surprising one to your opponents.

"Do you think you are a little to hung up with a fear of bad beats?"

No, just cautious. We have different styles...I would never fold AQ os where I could limp, and you would've tested the waters with your set on this board.

By this, I was talking much less about strategy and much more about the tone of your recent posts. I'm just wondering if you're expecting to be drawn out a little too much, and perhaps playing too scared. And as I mentioned before, this may be a dangerous self-fulfilling prophecy. The more cautiously you play, the more you allow your opponents draw out on you, the more cautionsly you play...

I almost don't want to bet hoping that someone with Ah 2h will get their flush draw when i make my boat, but make it easier and cheaper on myself to fold if a heart, 6 or J falls

I wouldn't count on this.

You have 1 out to accomplish this on the flop.

If the the turn is a heart, *and* you manage to actually get to the river (which you said you probably wouldn't), you have 10 outs to fill up. If the board pairs on the turn (7 outs), you have 9 outs on the river to attempt to suck someone in for the flush.

That's pretty thin drawing, and you might not even get paid off if you actually do get there.

Graham

"By this, I was talking much less about strategy and much more about the tone of your recent posts. I'm just wondering if you're expecting to be drawn out a little too much, and perhaps playing too scared. And as I mentioned before, this may be a dangerous self-fulfilling prophecy. The more cautiously you play, the more you allow your opponents draw out on you"


Well, my tone wasn't supposed to come off as scared...believe me, I don't fear cards.

"I'm just wondering if you're expecting to be drawn out a little too much,"

As I said before..it's throwing caution to the wind. You said:

"There are more (but not a *lot* more admittedly) bricks than scare cards"

that is what made me check...if it was close to 50/50 of a scare card falling, I figured it would likely be 50/50 for at least one of the players in the hand to make their draw...if they make their draw @ the same time I make mine then I figured the payout would be much bigger, but if a heart or other scare card falls, I can make an easy/cheap laydown.

A lot of people will jam it in on a 50/50, I simply won't.

vinsanity

"I figured it would likely be 50/50 for at least one of the players in the hand to make their draw...if they make their draw @ the same time I make mine then I figured the payout would be much bigger, but if a heart or other scare card falls, I can make an easy/cheap laydown."

The way I look at that statement is you're giving up the pot for an easy/cheap laydown. You flopped trips, I don't think that's a hand you want to laydown cheaply or otherwise.

giggles

If monty is ahead I think the best hand for monty's opponent to have is something like Jh 8h. In which case monty is a 55% favourite on the flop. If he has something like Ah Jh then monty is a 60% favourite.

If monty is behind say to a made straight. Then the straight is somewhere between 64-70% favourite on the flop. If someone has a set of Ts then monty is of course royally screwed.

Note also no one in the pot other than our hero has more than $55. And the pot is at $14 when our hero has to make a decision.

If we assume monty is playing against total morons who probably will call with much the worst of it (for example calling all-in here without at least a straight flush draw), then I think monty should raise, and raise all-in. Sometimes monty will be behind and sometimes monty will be almost dead. But monty should win enough from the loose calls to more than make up for the losses. Imagine being called by two morons! (Aside: I was called by two morons in a similar party 1/2 nl game. Alas, one of them caught a gut shot to take me down. lol.)

If monty is playing against more competent opponents, then it gets complicated. By competent I mean monty won't be getting much action unless they also have a good hand (good draw or a made hand). Then the decision whether to raise and by how much depends on the tendencies of the players and their stack sizes. It's too late to work it out now. I'll post something another day when I figure it out.

ScottyZ

If we assume monty is playing against total morons who probably will call with much the worst of it...

I think there is some evidence of this...

(marketman56 has 2c Ts.)

ScottyZ