The Cost of Re-opening the Action

ScottyZScottyZ
in Online Poker
I thought that this was a very instructive hand from an $11+R tourney (post-rebuy period).

Although the final river call is clearly suspect, the truly awful play IMO is the river raise.

PokerStars Game #1787795765: Tournament #8153259, Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2005/05/28 - 23:35:46 (ET)
Table '8153259 85' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: rblbet (9575 in chips)
Seat 2: pbdrunks (15576 in chips)
Seat 3: mantis (9900 in chips)
Seat 4: greenteeth (12032 in chips)
Seat 5: Cabbagehead (5110 in chips)
Seat 6: PizzaAggie (21845 in chips)
Seat 7: ScottyZ (7600 in chips)
Seat 8: mitchman1114 (16162 in chips)
Seat 9: Stooopid (7775 in chips)
ScottyZ: posts small blind 75
mitchman1114: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ScottyZ [6c Jc]
Stooopid: folds
rblbet: calls 150
pbdrunks: folds
mantis: calls 150
greenteeth: folds
Cabbagehead: folds
PizzaAggie: folds
ScottyZ: calls 75
mitchman1114: checks
*** FLOP *** [Jh Qs Kd]
ScottyZ: checks
mitchman1114: checks
rblbet: bets 300
mantis: calls 300
ScottyZ: folds
mitchman1114: folds
*** TURN *** [Jh Qs Kd] [Ac]
rblbet: bets 150
mantis: raises 900 to 1050
rblbet: calls 900
*** RIVER *** [Jh Qs Kd Ac] [Js]
rblbet: bets 150
mantis: raises 750 to 900
rblbet: raises 7175 to 8075 and is all-in
mantis: calls 7175
*** SHOW DOWN ***
rblbet: shows [Jd Qc] (a full house, Jacks full of Queens)
mantis: shows [Tc 5c] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
rblbet collected 19450 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 19450 | Rake 0
Board [Jh Qs Kd Ac Js]
Seat 1: rblbet showed [Jd Qc] and won (19450) with a full house, Jacks full of Queens
Seat 2: pbdrunks folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: mantis showed [Tc 5c] and lost with a straight, Ten to Ace
Seat 4: greenteeth folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Cabbagehead folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: PizzaAggie (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: ScottyZ (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: mitchman1114 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: Stooopid folded before Flop (didn't bet)

ScottyZ

Comments

  • GordGord
    yea there is definately no value in raising the river... there is no hand mantis beats that will call
  • BBC ZBBC Z
    Nobody sees a problem with rblbet calling 1000 chips with two pair on a 4-straight board?
  • ScottyZScottyZ
    BBC Z wrote:
    Nobody sees a problem with rblbet calling 1000 chips with two pair on a 4-straight board?

    I suppose the hand is not chock-full of world class plays. :)

    How about those pre-flop calls with QJo and T5s? You can't make those calls unless your post-flop skill level can probably make up for the ground lost in playing inadequate pre-flop values. Or unless you're feeling lucky.

    ScottyZ
  • BBC ZBBC Z
    This hand is a great example of the avalanche of errors you can get yourself into with poor preflop play..
  • Big EBig E
    I don't think Mantis bet enough on the turn...and with that flop and a huge turn bet I can't see rbl staying in the pot?
  • ScottyZScottyZ
    Big E wrote:
    I don't think Mantis bet enough on the turn...and with that flop and a huge turn bet I can't see rbl staying in the pot?

    The exact amount of the turn raise is not so bad I think. You currently have the nuts, so you don't necessarily want to blow your opponent out of the water. However, you do want to make it incorrect (as far as you reasonably can) for your opponent to draw in case his hand improving is a threat.

    At this point, I'd assume my opponent does not have a set. So, the opponent is drawing dead unless he has two pair. (Or the pot is already a chop-chop.) Raising by 900 offers the opponent maximum implied odds of 8,075 to 900, or about 9 to 1, which are insufficient to chase the 4 outs to the two pair. The actual implied odds are going to be quite a bit worse than this, since you will generally not expect to take your opponent's whole stack if you fill up.

    This is the basically reason that rblbet's turn call is a bad play, as BBC Z has already pointed out.

    ScottyZ
  • Big EBig E
    Good point, I see that now, thank you.


    Along with that call I seriously question the the all-in call, he had to know he was beaten when the board paired?
  • TigerscottTigerscott
    Very good hand to Debate...

    Rblbet played the entire hand poorly
    He limped from EP with a weak hand.
    He made a Good flop bet, Horrible bet and Turn call, Brutal River value bet but good reraise..

    Mantis made one mistake..
    the river raise on a paired board I don't like... The board is 5 high card Full House is to possible
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