Why dealers are bad players..... well generally
I guess I am feeling a little prolific tonight so here we go. There is a stereotype about poker dealers that they are terrible players. It is illustrated by the following joke you may have heard this one but here it is. Q: What is a poker players' idea of heaven? A: Nine white shirts around a poker table and an empty seat. (def. white shirt - slang term for a dealer) While this does offend me a little it also got me thinking if there is any truth to it and have come up with a hypothesis.(Hypothesis- big word for a dealer.) As a dealer sits in the box dealing cards only a few cards are visible to him. These being the community cards and exposed hands(winners and losers). So through the night every POS hand like 72o, 68s and A3o that win are usually shown and probably win a fair sized pot. In other cases when the hand is finished before the river the dealer may assume the winner had a nut or near nut hand.( board comes 2h 4d 5s 7c winner holds 68o). where the winner could theoretically have any hand. Lastly, throughout a night any player can win due to variance no matter how bad they are. Many times the wildly loose and aggressive players can be the big winner at the end of the night. And the next night the other wild player is the big winner. And so on. So at the end of the week the dealer looks back and sees wild players were the big winners each night of the week even if it was a different one each time. Meanwhile all those players lost each of the other nights and are all down. Unnoticed are the solid players who through this averaged a 50 dollar win each night and are up 350 dollars. So there is my hypothesis.. Observation bias to the nth degree. Let me know if you agree, disagree or think all dealers are terrible players.
If you think the last one I will play you heads up and prove you wrong
Paul
If you think the last one I will play you heads up and prove you wrong
Paul
Comments
...and for the record.... most dealers aren't even good dealers.... most are average.
i thought one book has a good example that i cannot completely rememebr. Some analogy to a lifeguard i think. Something like a lifeguard can swim well enough to save some people but can never win an olympic medal or something along those lines.
i dunno if someone rememebrs please remind me.
carplayer archives he wrote a piece about being a dealer and how it translates.
I have been profitting since i starting Playing holdem seriously 2 years ago
I dont think it has anything to do with dealers, but jus the individual in general?
What ur saying is pretty much ludicris, do u really think dealers anaylze every hand whether hes a player or not, dealing for 8-12 hrs every hand does not matter to me!
At times in my shift, i will try to read players, and see if i got the correct read later on. In my underground games i always look at players cards after they fold or win unless they are not a person who would like that being done lol, but most become friends or acquitances that dont have a problem with it.
I dealt for 2 years before i even got serious into playing becuase i wanted to learn properly instead of paying $$ at the table to learn.
I think ur assumption is pretty stupid and not well thought out, and ur examples given about a dealer seeing loose players win, so then hell be loose, has no evidence to it but a random generalization.
So I dont believe dealers are bad, on the contrary they learn to read situations and players better because they are always involved in the hand because they are dealing the hand, and it helps out their game in the long run.
I've played with "white shirts" in Vegas. Obviously they can't be dealing and playing at the same time. So they are either playing before a shift, or after a shift. If they are getting in a couple of hours before work, then they might play too fast. If they have just finished a shift, then they are bound to be tired, which leads to mistakes.
Also, when you have your tips in your shirt pocket, it seems like it is easy money. I'm sure many dealers think, "I've got $150 in my pocket, let's see if I can make a quick score in the $15-30 game."
In Canada, I believe that all dealers tips are pooled (including blackjack, roulette etc.) I think at the very least, poker dealers tips should be in a separate pool, or that they even be allowed to keep their own tokes. Good dealers should be rewarded in some way; that's what makes them get more proficient. I've never been a big fan of Communism either.
I've played with some top-notch dealers who are excellent players here at home. If you are a great dealer, then you likely have what it takes to become a winning player. Hats off to Kevin, Gei and Gord who've all won major tournaments in Canada.
Getting back to a "typical" dealer/player in Vegas. Why did they take up this profession in the first place? Possibly because they are action junkies. Instead of watching from the rail, they get paid to deal and watch the game at the same time. And the old adage, "those who can do, those who can't teach" probably applies in many cases to bad dealers in a round-about way.
Good question pkrooster. I agree with you that observation bias of seeing lousy hands win time after time (or more accurately, that particular garbage hand win that particular pot) creeps into the psyche of some dealers. [ BTW rooster, thanks for the praise on the CPP columns. Much appreciated.]
Is this because it's Vegas (and they don't have bad beat jackpots)? I still haven't been to Vegas - my shame.
I was reading a B&M bad beat jackpot story written by a dealer and he wrote when there were not enough people playing he would deal and play. I know Party Poker has a bad beat jackpot where at least 4 players need to be in for the hand to be eligible.
Also, a poll would be interesting on this one. I'd like to see at least 3 voting options.
Most B&M casinos require 5-6 players (usually 6) for the jackpot to go. I'm sure that different online sites have varying requirements for when the jackpot is eligible to go be won.
My brother deals, and he isn't even allowed to play the slots in the same casino. They aren't allowed to play ever, even on off nights in the casino. Might be just the rules in Alberta, but likely elsewhere in Canada too.
Thanks for you input
Paul
Whoops, it was an american tale from long ago I was reading so I should have mentioned that in a Canadian poker forum.