Stars $100 NL MTT

Unknown

This post will try to fool you into thinking that I'm posting a couple of hands for comment, but its real purpose is to brag about how I took first in the 1:00 am Stars $100 NL MTT last night.  195 players, first place, no deals.  I haven't played many MTT's in a while--mostly SNG's all the freakin time--and I felt pretty good.  At one point, with five players left, I had accumulated half the chips in play, which allowed me to basically bully the table into submission.

A couple of interesting hands that got me there:

just outside the money

PokerStars Game #1763624065: Tournament #8153054, Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2005/05/25 - 02:54:43 (ET)
Table '8153054 20' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: snadman (30867 in chips)
Seat 2: all aces (5650 in chips)
Seat 3: tere here (2242 in chips)
Seat 5: SIR7 (5915 in chips)
Seat 6: argules (11323 in chips)
Seat 7: tristant (17921 in chips)
Seat 9: dalton ames (4650 in chips)
snadman: posts the ante 25
all aces: posts the ante 25
tere here: posts the ante 25
SIR7: posts the ante 25
argules: posts the ante 25
tristant: posts the ante 25
dalton ames: posts the ante 25
snadman: posts small blind 200
all aces: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to all aces [4s As]
tere here: folds
SIR7: raises 800 to 1200
argules: folds
tristant: folds
dalton ames: calls 1200
snadman: folds
all aces: calls 800
*** FLOP *** [3h Td 6h]
all aces: checks
SIR7: bets 1600
dalton ames: folds
all aces: raises 2825 to 4425 and is all-in
SIR7: calls 2825
all aces said, "wow"
*** TURN *** [3h Td 6h] [6d]
*** RIVER *** [3h Td 6h 6d] [8d]
all aces said, "who knew"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
all aces: shows [4s As] (a pair of Sixes)
SIR7: shows [Qc Kc] (a pair of Sixes - lower kicker)
all aces collected 12825 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 12825 | Rake 0
Board [3h Td 6h 6d 8d]
Seat 1: snadman (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: all aces (big blind) showed [4s As] and won (12825) with a pair of Sixes
Seat 3: tere here folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: SIR7 showed [Qc Kc] and lost with a pair of Sixes
Seat 6: argules folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: tristant folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: dalton ames (button) folded on the Flop

(a couple of notes... I wouldn't have called the preflop raise if LP hadn't called... still borderline... I thought the flop missed the preflop raiser completely and was worried about LP, which is why I waited to see what LP was doing before I moved in... when the original raiser called me I thought I was done for... only to see that I had been bluffing with the best hand, and was called ?!?!?!)

in the money (2 tables)

PokerStars Game #1763754782: Tournament #8153054, Hold'em No Limit - Level X (400/800) - 2005/05/25 - 03:38:07 (ET)
Table '8153054 20' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 2: all aces (31740 in chips)
Seat 3: orestbeaver (27810 in chips)
Seat 4: coolmoedee (13115 in chips)
Seat 6: argules (11128 in chips)
Seat 7: tristant (17646 in chips)
Seat 8: ryguyca (9220 in chips)
Seat 9: HitUR2outer (32320 in chips)
all aces: posts the ante 50
orestbeaver: posts the ante 50
coolmoedee: posts the ante 50
argules: posts the ante 50
tristant: posts the ante 50
ryguyca: posts the ante 50
HitUR2outer: posts the ante 50
HitUR2outer: posts small blind 400
all aces: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to all aces [8c Kh]
orestbeaver: folds
coolmoedee: folds
argules: folds
tristant: folds
ryguyca: folds
HitUR2outer: raises 1600 to 2400
all aces: raises 4000 to 6400
HitUR2outer: folds
all aces collected 5150 from pot
all aces: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 5150 | Rake 0
Seat 2: all aces (big blind) collected (5150)
Seat 3: orestbeaver folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: coolmoedee folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: argules folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: tristant folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: ryguyca (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: HitUR2outer (small blind) folded before Flop

(HitUR2outer was a very aggressive player.  I only posted that hand to set up the hand after the next one.)

PokerStars Game #1763757965: Tournament #8153054, Hold'em No Limit - Level X (400/800) - 2005/05/25 - 03:39:18 (ET)
Table '8153054 20' Seat #3 is the button
Seat 2: all aces (33940 in chips)
Seat 3: orestbeaver (26460 in chips)
Seat 4: coolmoedee (12165 in chips)
Seat 6: argules (10978 in chips)
Seat 7: tristant (15046 in chips)
Seat 8: ryguyca (14620 in chips)
Seat 9: HitUR2outer (29770 in chips)
all aces: posts the ante 50
orestbeaver: posts the ante 50
coolmoedee: posts the ante 50
argules: posts the ante 50
tristant: posts the ante 50
ryguyca: posts the ante 50
HitUR2outer: posts the ante 50
coolmoedee: posts small blind 400
argules: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to all aces [Qd As]
tristant: raises 14196 to 14996 and is all-in
ryguyca: folds
HitUR2outer: folds
all aces: folds
orestbeaver: calls 14996
coolmoedee: folds
argules: folds
*** FLOP *** [4h 6c Qh]
*** TURN *** [4h 6c Qh] [3d]
*** RIVER *** [4h 6c Qh 3d] [8h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
tristant: shows [7h 7d] (a pair of Sevens)
orestbeaver: shows [Kd Qs] (a pair of Queens)
orestbeaver collected 31542 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 31542 | Rake 0
Board [4h 6c Qh 3d 8h]
Seat 2: all aces folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: orestbeaver (button) showed [Kd Qs] and won (31542) with a pair of Queens
Seat 4: coolmoedee (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: argules (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: tristant showed [7h 7d] and lost with a pair of Sevens
Seat 8: ryguyca folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: HitUR2outer folded before Flop (didn't bet)

(would anyone have called here with the AQ?  I would have won, not that it matters)

PokerStars Game #1763760557: Tournament #8153054, Hold'em No Limit - Level X (400/800) - 2005/05/25 - 03:40:15 (ET)
Table '8153054 20' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 2: all aces (35340 in chips)
Seat 3: orestbeaver (42906 in chips)
Seat 4: coolmoedee (11665 in chips)
Seat 6: argules (9678 in chips)
Seat 8: ryguyca (13720 in chips)
Seat 9: HitUR2outer (29670 in chips)
all aces: posts the ante 50
orestbeaver: posts the ante 50
coolmoedee: posts the ante 50
argules: posts the ante 50
ryguyca: posts the ante 50
HitUR2outer: posts the ante 50
ryguyca: posts small blind 400
HitUR2outer: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to all aces [Js As]
all aces: raises 1600 to 2400
orestbeaver: folds
coolmoedee: folds
argules: folds
ryguyca: folds
HitUR2outer: calls 1600
*** FLOP *** [4h Ks 8d]
HitUR2outer: checks
all aces: bets 2400
HitUR2outer: calls 2400
*** TURN *** [4h Ks 8d] [Kh]
HitUR2outer: bets 4000 (the old 'stop and go'... I'm a big fan of this play myself)
all aces: raises 6400 to 10400
HitUR2outer: folds
all aces collected 18300 from pot
all aces: shows [Js As] (a pair of Kings)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 18300 | Rake 0
Board [4h Ks 8d Kh]
Seat 2: all aces collected (18300)
Seat 3: orestbeaver folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: coolmoedee folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: argules (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: ryguyca (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: HitUR2outer (big blind) folded on the Turn

final table

PokerStars Game #1763880858: Tournament #8153054, Hold'em No Limit - Level XIV (2000/4000) - 2005/05/25 - 04:36:21 (ET)
Table '8153054 20' Seat #3 is the button
Seat 2: all aces (117358 in chips)
Seat 3: orestbeaver (15044 in chips)
Seat 4: coolmoedee (65626 in chips)
Seat 5: Fezzer130 (94472 in chips)
all aces: posts the ante 200
orestbeaver: posts the ante 200
coolmoedee: posts the ante 200
Fezzer130: posts the ante 200
coolmoedee: posts small blind 2000
Fezzer130: posts big blind 4000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to all aces [Js Ah]
all aces: raises 12000 to 16000
orestbeaver: folds
coolmoedee: folds
Fezzer130: raises 28000 to 44000
ezvc [observer] said, "nj fezz"
all aces: raises 73158 to 117158 and is all-in
Fezzer130: folds
all aces collected 90800 from pot
all aces: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 90800 | Rake 0
Seat 2: all aces collected (90800)
Seat 3: orestbeaver (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: coolmoedee (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Fezzer130 (big blind) folded before Flop

Fezzer130 said, "i laid 10s to u man"
all aces said, "coin flip"
Fezzer130 said, "wow"
all aces said, "g fold tho, i could have had  a higher pair"
Fezzer130 said, "can't belive u reraised w/ no pair all ace"
all aces said, "fezz i am unpredictable"
all aces said, ";-)"
HitUR2outer [observer] said, "that's one way to put it"


There were other interesting hands, but I'll spare you.  Any comments on these ones would be appreciated.

As an aside, before the tournament I played a few $200 SNG's.  I played with the same guy a few times, and during the third one with 4 of us left, I raised, he came over the top for all of his chips, and I folded. 

He said: "sorry aces I'm just sick of it."
Me: "sick of what?"
him: "the raising"
him: "not just this one, all the time"

(at this point I'm grinning from ear to ear.  It would appear that I've got him right where I want him.)

me: "you know your game has improved when someone actually takes the time to complain about your aggression"
me: "i think raising is a big part of this game"
me: "but go ahead and reraise me to your heart's content"

I loved that.  'He's sick of me, and all the raising.'  ROFLMAO.

BBC Z

One day I hope to understand this level of play.

To a mere LL grinder, it looks insane.

Unknown

I'll take that as the backhanded compliment it is. 

To be fair, these were the more 'exciting' hands.  There were also some tight, big laydowns, etc... that I didn't inlude, and some standard lucky hands where I get a monster vs. someone else's slightly smaller monster.

Flint Bones

I am astounded by your re-raise to Fezzer. His aggression didn't match yours. It was a great play and you had the hand to play with but it took a lot of balls. My hats off to you. I really wonder what fezzer had.

The K 8 raise was perfect. You had enough chips to do it and you called outers bluff. Great job.

Unknown

Thanks Flint.  Fezzer said in the chat that follows that hand history that he had TT.  Given the stacks and the prize structure, I knew that he would lay down a LOT of hands to my all-in reraise.  TT is a pretty big laydown in a shorthanded game though, and I'm glad he did it.

As for the K8 hand, I didn't include some of HitUR2outer's hands before that.  I had concluded that he/she wanted to be the table bully, and I wanted to make it clear that my blinds were not up for grabs.  I wonder if I should have shown the K8 to illustrate that point...

Flint Bones

Duh, missed the chat afterwards. TT and he laid it down. Wow. I would have played it, maybe lost but wouldn't have been upset about it. It was a great bet.

I still can't believe he caved. He had half his stack in and folded before the flop. Maybe he put you on a higher pair but still, you really got to play that.

I wonder if I should have shown the K8 to illustrate that point...

You should have shown him. Just to mess with his head and the rest of the table. With your stack it would have made a lot people question raising while you're still in a hand.

ScottyZ

Nice win!

As for the K8 hand, I didn't include some of HitUR2outer's hands before that. I had concluded that he/she wanted to be the table bully, and I wanted to make it clear that my blinds were not up for grabs. I wonder if I should have shown the K8 to illustrate that point...

No way. In the kind of tournament you're in, you generally want your opponents to think that you have real hands when you make big raises and re-raises. My guess is that if you flash the K8 right here, you will get many more calls/re-raises from your opponents than you would probably want in future hands.

IMO, you generally don't want to give your opponents the idea that they may be wrong to fold to your bets & raises. So don't burn the impression of you re-raising with complete rags into your opponents' minds. :cool:

And as for the AQo hand, I'd fold it against a typical/unknown player. You might think of it this way: How do you feel in the exact same spot holding AKo instead? Is that an easy call? An easy fold? A close decision? A call (or fold) that's neither easy nor close?

ScottyZ

Unknown

Hmmm... I would have probably called with AK.  Is that weird, or 'wrong'?  I dunno.  But yeah, AK, call, AQ, fold.  Bizarre.  It's close anyways. 

BTW Scotty, when I was monster chip leader, our discussion kept going through my head and one phrase of yours in particular: big stacks should be making marginal raises, not marginal calls.

Solid advice, which is exactly why I folded AQ in this spot, and some other big hands in other spots as well.  (I think I folded 88 when I had about 80K or so.  UTG shortstack (10K) moved in, clearly desperate, everyone folded to me on the button, and I decided not to chance it... ?)

Unknown

For those who are interested in 'deal' discussions, here's how ours went.  I was willing to get support to crunch the numbers, and I'd make my decision then.  We didn't get that far.

Seat 2: all aces (187802 in chips)
Seat 4: coolmoedee (46826 in chips)
Seat 5: Fezzer130 (57872 in chips)

Fezzer130 said, "either u guys wanna deal?"
Fezzer130 said, "by chip count"
all aces said, "i'd consider a chip count deal if i see numbers i like"
Fezzer130 said, "wanna sit out and call support"
all aces said, "cool, u interested?"
coolmoedee said, "maybe, after this hand"
isuck123 [observer] said, "lol"
ezvc [observer] said, "LOL"
Fezzer130 said, "ok haha"
all aces said, "well i'm gonna fold"
all aces said, "regardless"
ezvc [observer] said, "classic"
all aces said, "so do we all sit out and email support after i fold"
coolmoedee said, "what kind of deal"
all aces said, "or not"
Fezzer130 said, "by chips"
all aces said, "26"
Fezzer130 said, "all gets most then us"
all aces said, "25"
all aces said, "24"
all aces said, "23"
all aces said, "22"
coolmoedee said, "lets play"
all aces said, "we playing or not?"
all aces said, "ok cool"
all aces said, "gl"
all aces: folds
coolmoedee said, "gl too you guys too"
HitUR2outer [observer] said, "wow unbelieveable"
ezvc [observer] said, "i think the deal made a lot of sense right?"
HitUR2outer [observer] said, "of course"
Fezzer130 said, "it does"
isuck123 [observer] said, "some people wont deal"
Fezzer130 said, "anything can happen w/ me n cool but all has commanding chip lead"
isuck123 [observer] said, "SHaniac did it to me, we were even, last 2, said he doesnt believe in deals"
ezvc [observer] said, "its coool... to each their own..."
HitUR2outer [observer] said, "that's different than the chip leader having 3 times your chips"
HitUR2outer [observer] said, "who wouldn't deal at that point"
Fezzer130 said, "i know but cool didnt wanna deal not all"
ezvc [observer] said, "but i think from a math perspective.. if im in 3rd and have 1/4 the chip leader stack, btu getting 1/3 of the total prize pool.. thats good"
isuck123 [observer] said, "i always deal, espec at 5am"
ezvc [observer] said, "does poker star support come in and help do it?"
HitUR2outer [observer] said, "yep"
ezvc [observer] said, "are they notified by email?"

I then knock out coolmoedee

Seat 2: all aces (250228 in chips)
Seat 5: Fezzer130 (42272 in chips)

all aces said, "if u get even with me i'll chop it if u want"
all aces said, "otherwise no deal"
ezvc [observer] said, "lol"
ezvc [observer] said, "hedge bet"
Fezzer130 said, "alright fair enough"

ScottyZ

Hmmm... I would have probably called with AK. Is that weird, or 'wrong'? I dunno. But yeah, AK, call, AQ, fold. Bizarre. It's close anyways.

I wouldn't say that a call with AKo would be wrong. However, I do think it's not what I would say is an easy call. Plus it depends a lot on the opponent. What does it mean to you that the opponent moves all-in UTG for ~493 billion times the BB? Is he known to make these nutcase all-in raises a lot? Or would he just move the whole stack in with AA as a deceptive play? Must he have a pair here? Any Ace? 93o?

I sometimes like to ask myself how I'd handle the neighbouring hands.1 Getting back to the original hand (AQo), I think that AJo is a pretty easy fold in the same spot, and AKo seems like a call, but a fairly close one. So AQo (which is considerably worse than AKo) seems to me like a fold. Not an easy fold, but not really all that close to a call either. (Again, unless you have your opponent on a specific range of hands where AQo is lookin' good.)

BTW Scotty, when I was monster chip leader, our discussion kept going through my head and one phrase of yours in particular: big stacks should be making marginal raises, not marginal calls.

At the risk of overloading the idea with too many catchphrases, when I'm on a big stack, I want to be the bully, not the policeman.

Having watched The Boondock Saints last night, the bully vs. policeman motif rings strong.

As an aside, I sure wish the DVD had either subtitles or closed captioning. I don't speak Irish.

Solid advice, which is exactly why I folded AQ in this spot, and some other big hands in other spots as well. (I think I folded 88 when I had about 80K or so. UTG shortstack (10K) moved in, clearly desperate, everyone folded to me on the button, and I decided not to chance it... ?)

With the 88 hand, it would matter to me quite a bit what the blinds were. If it was, say, 500-1,000, I'd probably give it up. With blinds like 1,500-3,000 and it starts getting trickier as it starts getting to the point where the pre-flop pot size (including the corresponding antes) starts getting big. It's going to also depend on the stack sizes of the two blinds, and whether or not you feel they'll jump into the fray with you.

ScottyZ

1One thing I am not trying to say is that AJ, AQ, AK are similar hands. I actually think that they are quite far apart in strength (when not short-stacked and/or short-handed) in a NLHE tournament. However, if one neighbouring hand would be a tough (or easy) decision, this might give some intuition on the original hand. Of course, this is just a more focussed way of thinking about questions like, "What range of hands would I call/fold/raise with here?"

ScottyZ

Fezzer130 said, "wanna sit out and call support"
all aces said, "cool, u interested?"
coolmoedee said, "maybe, after this hand"

This may be a tell...



ScottyZ

Unknown

What does it mean to you that the opponent moves all-in UTG for ~493 billion times the BB? Is he known to make these nutcase all-in raises a lot? Or would he just move the whole stack in with AA as a deceptive play? Must he have a pair here? Any Ace? 93o?

What I should have mentioned, but didn't, was that the player who moved in for ~493 billion times the BB had lost a couple of pretty big pots in a row.  I think he was on tilt... or at least, I thought so then.  In the past though, I've seen players who should appear to be on tilt pick up a monster, and then capitalize on their tilt-image by just shoving it all in there.  So I folded.  (BTW, I can't remember the last time I used '~' in a sentence.  It took me half an hour to find it way up there.)

I sometimes like to ask myself how I'd handle the neighbouring hands.1 Getting back to the original hand (AQo), I think that AJo is a pretty easy fold in the same spot, and AKo seems like a call, but a fairly close one. So AQo (which is considerably worse than AKo) seems to me like a fold. Not an easy fold, but not really all that close to a call either. (Again, unless you have your opponent on a specific range of hands where AQo is lookin' good.)

Very nicely put.

With the 88 hand, it would matter to me quite a bit what the blinds were. If it was, say, 500-1,000, I'd probably give it up. With blinds like 1,500-3,000 and it starts getting trickier as it starts getting to the point where the pre-flop pot size (including the corresponding antes) starts getting big. It's going to also depend on the stack sizes of the two blinds, and whether or not you feel they'll jump into the fray with you.

Here are the particulars of that hand:

Before I get to the hand, I just opened the email with the hand histories, dreading the task of finding that one particular 88 hand.  I scrolled down to a random place in the email and stopped, right on the 88 hand.  Life is good.

PokerStars Game #1763769798: Tournament #8153054, Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (600/1200) - 2005/05/25 - 03:43:45 (ET)
Table '8153054 20' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 2: all aces (45665 in chips)
Seat 3: orestbeaver (40981 in chips)
Seat 4: coolmoedee (15340 in chips)
Seat 6: argules (9603 in chips)
Seat 8: ryguyca (10995 in chips)
Seat 9: HitUR2outer (20395 in chips)
all aces: posts the ante 75
orestbeaver: posts the ante 75
coolmoedee: posts the ante 75
argules: posts the ante 75
ryguyca: posts the ante 75
HitUR2outer: posts the ante 75
all aces: posts small blind 600
orestbeaver: posts big blind 1200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to all aces [8d 8s]
coolmoedee: folds
argules: folds
ryguyca: raises 9720 to 10920 and is all-in
HitUR2outer: folds
all aces: folds
orestbeaver: folds
ryguyca collected 3450 from pot
ryguyca: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3450 | Rake 0
Seat 2: all aces (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: orestbeaver (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: coolmoedee folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: argules folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: ryguyca collected (3450)
Seat 9: HitUR2outer (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

As you see, I got some of the details wrong (ie: my stack size, and the all-in player's position) but the gist was right.  The guy was getting desperate, and losing the pot wouldn't do too much damage to my stack.  Call or fold?

ScottyZ

What I should have mentioned, but didn't, was that the player who moved in for ~493 billion times the BB had lost a couple of pretty big pots in a row. I think he was on tilt... or at least, I thought so then. In the past though, I've seen players who should appear to be on tilt pick up a monster, and then capitalize on their tilt-image by just shoving it all in there. So I folded.

Probably best to not overthink the situation by introducing artificial distortions like your opponent possibly being on tilt, etc. Plus I like your reasoning that players can use their apparent mood to their advantage. I have done this myself quite a few times. :cool:

Call or fold [with the 88]?

I think I'd fold it too.

Using some more neighbouring hand theory (sort of):

It looks like an easy call with QQ or better. Maybe a fairly easy call with Jacks too. It strikes me as a tricky decision with TT or maybe even 99.

You can certainly put your opponent on a fairly wide range of semi-stealing hands here, but IMO the 88 just doesn't have quite enough mustard on it to look this guy up for ~ a quarter of your stack.

Mmmmm... mustard.

ScottyZ

Tilter

WOW. Congrats on the win. You are truly a beast. Gearing for the WSOP. My good week has now turned into a good drought.

With AQ, for that raise, I would probably lay it down too. I would feel its either a small PP or an AK raise. Althought you never know. I also enjoy your play back moves. Now I know the "STOP AND GO" move

harthgosh

once again proven quality,

out comes the tongue again, bend over sir....... ALL ACES IS THE SICKEST PLAYER ON THIS FORUM
IF U WANT TO LEARN POKER READ EVERYTHING HE EVER WROTE.

see you in vegas i hope D?

Unknown

LOL thanks HG. I'll be in Vegas from June 2 to June 7.

harthgosh

ACK

well that sucks. Im going on the 8th. Gonna go try and be there for dave williams bday party on the 9th.