How to protect your hand ?
I find this is a re-occurring problem I have in the 4-8 at the local B&M , I flop top pair with a decent kicker into a ragged board , should I bet the flop or depending on my position check with the intention of raising or wait till the turn. I find a $4 bet even into a small pot chases no -one away and I'm scared that I'm building the pot to the point that someone will have pot odds call a bet on the turn to run me down.
Example , KJ on the button ,5 players , FLOP > J 8 4 rainbow - if checked to me do I bet when I know everyone is going to call ? The type of hands I want to get rid of are 8 7 and A 10 . If there is a flush draw I always tend to bet because they aren't going anywhere regardless of how many bets , and I want to make them pay to run me down.
This is a fundamental problem I seem to have , its easier to calculate the pot odds when you are the one on a draw , but what to do when your pretty sure you have the best hand but are very vulnerable . Also its easier to get away from your hand if the 3rd flush card hits or a 3 straight hits the board , but all too often I turn over A Q , for Qs with A kicker to be shown some ragged 2 pair , I feel compelled to pay off.
Example , KJ on the button ,5 players , FLOP > J 8 4 rainbow - if checked to me do I bet when I know everyone is going to call ? The type of hands I want to get rid of are 8 7 and A 10 . If there is a flush draw I always tend to bet because they aren't going anywhere regardless of how many bets , and I want to make them pay to run me down.
This is a fundamental problem I seem to have , its easier to calculate the pot odds when you are the one on a draw , but what to do when your pretty sure you have the best hand but are very vulnerable . Also its easier to get away from your hand if the 3rd flush card hits or a 3 straight hits the board , but all too often I turn over A Q , for Qs with A kicker to be shown some ragged 2 pair , I feel compelled to pay off.
Comments
I would rarely wait until the turn to start betting a good hand in low-limit. The key to low-limit is value betting, and value bets are going to be much more effective in the earlier streets when there are cards to come.
Generally, low-limit players are loosest pre-flop and on the flop, tighten up on the turn, and severely tighten up on the river. This roadmap suggests which streets to make your value bets on, and which streets to make your bluffs (if any) on.
Sure. Knowing that people will probably call you with inferior hands is an excellent reason to make a bet.
When you are in a situation where you are pretty sure have the best hand and your opponent is drawing, you are offered a 1 to 1 payoff from each individual opponent on every bet you make. You don't need to compute pot odds yourself if you are not the one who is drawing. You make a profitable bet (assume the play is heads-up for simplicity) if you have greater than a 50% chance of winning the hand at the point where you make that bet.
ScottyZ
The key to limit holdem is figuring the answer to this question out. It's highly player dependant. Is there an agressive guy on the button who will bet regardless and you are in EP? Then the check-raise would be good as you'll face the table with calling 2 cold. Is the table so passive that it risks checking through? Then bet yourself and protect your hand from overcards and backdoor draws. Sometimes there is no way of protecting your hand. In that case, you bet for value with your pot equity edge.
Understand that this is poor logic. You never ever never ever really 'charge the flush draws'. All a flush draw needs is three players going to the turn for calling of any bets on the flop to be profitable. So doing things like 3 betting the flop to 'charge him' is wrong. Of course, not betting at all because a flush draw MAY be out there is even worse.
Sounds to me like you fold too much and miss value bets when a scare card hits. Just because the possibility for a straight/flush to be out there exists doesn't mean someones holding it.
In the scenario you described, I would call the river for two reasons:
1) You may have the best hand and the pot is a monster. You will only need to be ahead like 10% in the long run for the river call to be profitable.
2) See your opponents cards and how he played it. This may sacrifice a little short term EV for a lot of longterm EV if you saw the guy coldcall 3 with 67s.
Anyway, quit seeing monsters under the bet. Someone with 2nd pair has 5 outs to improve to two pair. Thats 1 out better than drawing to an inside straight draw. You WANT those callers. They are profit.
In a small game, like $4-8 I almost NEVER slow play. The error that most players make is that they call too much. Betting will, generally, invite them to make that error. Bet, hope to get raised and then re-raise. Pound them. There are lots of players who will raise you with flush draws, etc. Pound them back with a three bet.
The flush draws aren't going anywhere. They have the odds to come along. It's the other hands you note -- 8-7 and A-T -- that you want to make pay to play. Betting invites them to err.
Pot odds don't really apply if you have the best hand (defined as "the favourite") since every cent flowing into the pot represents profit.
One of the standard refrains heard in low-limit games is: "I can't beat the little games because nobody folds." My standard answer is: "You would rather play in games where nobody is making a mistake?"
In low-limit games you do not want to "protect your hand." You want all those calling stations happily throwing their money the pot with the worst of it. Yes, it will be much higher variance than a $20-40 game (if measured in big bets) but it will also be MUCH more profitable (also as measured in big bets).