Lower limit = more berserk?
I there. I'm wondering if the lower limits have more berserk happenings than the higher limits. I'm still relatively new to the game (less than one year) and am limiting myself to 20 or less SnG's and 1/2 limit hold-em. It makes sense to me that the higher the limits, the less berserk the plays are and the more like "real poker" the play is. Would you more experienced types care to comment on this please? Thanks...
Bill
Bill
Comments
I've always found it strange that some people have a pre-conceived notion of how poker should be played by their opponents. In fact, the variety of opponents is what makes the game of poker, and good poker players, so rich.
If I sat down at a poker table with 9 clones of myself, regardless of my own skill level, we are guaranteed to lose money in the long run by paying the house fees.1
Are there more "beserk happenings" in low limit games? Of course there are. Opponents of lower skill level = opponents generally playing more (and therefore stanger) hands = more bad beats = more long run profits for the good players.
ScottyZ
1Or we lose in the sense of wasting our time if there are no house fees.
No other motivation for your OP had occurred to me.
ScottyZ
Bill
Trust me, keep playing and learn to know when they catch their crazy straights or runner runner flush. You'll end up a better player and have a little extra money as well.
Watch some games to see what I mean. Those "chasers" for the most part, evetually bust out and someone is making a killing off of that. Why not you?
I suspect I had a run of good luck that perhaps has paused...and that I'm not yet a "good player"...trying though...
Bill
I think that this is both important, and difficult to achieve. Having a good grasp on the psychology of low-limit poker is key.
Each individual bad beat is obviously frustrating. However, by definition, bad beats arise from opponents playing suboptimal poker. In other words, by going in with crap.
It's not easy sitting through a session and having the "live ones" walk away with all of the dough after they seem to have hit more than their fair share of 2-outers. However, in the long run you will make money from these kinds of players in the sessions where they repeatedly miss. And, believe me, they will have such sessions. A bad low-limit player who is also having a bad run is a real poker disaster.
One of the main aspects of "bad beat psychology" is that you almost never see your opponents miss their crazy draws.
This creates an artificial imbalance in your perception of bad beats simply because you almost never truly observe the results of a non-bad beat hand. One of the primary, and most natural, learning mechanisms that humans use is observation. If you try to understand the frequency of bad beats through observation alone, you will probably reach the conclusion that bad beats occur nearly 100% of the time.
Poker profits come from skill differences. You will make money from the poker players who are less skilled than you in the long run. As Smith would say, it is inevitable.
On the other hand, you will sometimes get hammered by the bad players. You will lose to rivered 2-outers, backdoor royal flush draws1, and 72o when the flop was 3-bet.
It's maybe hard to realize, and definitely hard to handle in real time, but it's exaclty the fact that these kinds of bad beats occur that make you the money in the long run.
ScottyZ
1Hey, I can subtly insert my own bad beat stories here and there, can't I? :cool:
Bill
Go to your nearest casino and sit in the lowest limit game they deal. You will see guys sit down and bust within the hour get up and leave get replaced by another guy that sits down and busts etc etc etc.
It gives you some perspective that the bad players really do lose over time. With online play, you are never really playing with people long enough to watch them lose and rebuy and lose.
or others at your table in player notes....I started with an address book I keep in a drawer (now I use the
on-line notes that almost all sites have).
I've also used the notes to flag players who play at higher limits (by just watching tables I wouldn't dare play on given
my bankroll) to see if they have dropped in to the lower games for some feeding. It takes time to do, but
I've found it useful to know what I'm up against. You'll have to decide for yourself whether or not the higher limit
regulars are better or worse that the lower limit players...
Your next session, take a scroll through the tables to see if any one, two or three of these chasers are there...
Works like a charm now and then. A few weeks ago, one player I've tracked sat down ($1 NL) and graciously passed
$175 over to me in the matter of 10 minutes. That's way more than he borrowed from me in the games where I saw
him chase and hit with 'crap'....
Good Luck!
I have also done this. One particular player on Stars I've seen in 5/10 NL is now multitabling (x5) at 1/2 NL. I'm still not sure yet if his roll was burned at the higher level (have seen some surprising calls by him) or if he's feeding.
It depends what you mean by "berserk". At low limits, you get a large number of people who aren't really playing with money they care about, and also players who are new to the game and don't yet have their game together. Those are often the types of players who make crazy bets. Over the long run, playing with people like that is highly profitable for anybody who has a good handle on the game.
At higher limits, you sometimes get the above types, but more often if somebody's making crazy bets it's because they've worked out a game plan that makes those bets pay off for them. An article that might give you some insight:
http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=495010&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=all&vc=1
A good book on this type of play is John Vorhaus' Killer Poker. Making money against these types of players is actually pretty simple - make sure there's at least 2-3 people at the table who are a lot worse than you, they'll draw the attention of the sharks and you can quietly pick up some big pots when you get the cards. In the long run, if you want to play at higher limits you'll need to become the kind of player who can take pots with crazy hands on occasion, but learning to do so profitably is tricky.
But on a more analytical note, the players at the higher limit I played at were much more sane...perhaps it fit my own "set-point" better...very interesting thread...
Bill
Bill
Bill
But those same players have been paying me off, as i've learned to take beats to my big hands in stride (after a couple loud curse words, lol). I guess this is where playing lots of hands is good, learning to lose with Aces and Kings, and that they can be cracked..
These same reckless crazies are the ones who will reraise my nut flushes, and straights to obliviion with bottom pair, trying to scare me out, obviously not seeing the signs that i REALLY like my cards.