Is UB jinxed...... or is it just me?

I've only ever played on UB. These are 2 of the most frustrating scenarios that keep happening time after time. Is it just on UB, or have you online players find it happens on all sites.

1. The crap I fold (2,7; 10,3; etc) would have been the winning hand ...... boats or flushes. This happens to me ALOT........ way too often to write off to coincidence.

2. The most annoying hands suck out on the river in the most amazing ways ...... usually when I hit trips ....... again, way too often to write off to coincidence.

It's not just me, right?

Comments

  • It's widely known and understood that UB is, in fact, rigged.
  • Funny you should say that. I thought about that, then just figured I was being paranoid. Most online gaming books I've read suggest that online sites are legit and not rigged, despite all the internet articles to the contrary. What's your source on UB being rigged and are there any other sites that are dodgy.
  • all_aces wrote:
    It's widely known and understood that UB is, in fact, rigged.

    I can't possibly dispute the overwhelming literature of statistical evidence that attests to this.

    However, I believe the original quesion was whether or not UB was jinxed, not rigged. This, I believe, has been a relatively unexplored question to this point.

    ScottyZ
  • jinxed ...... rigged ....... tomato....... tom-ah-to....... it all makes for interesting conversation
  • What's your source on UB being rigged

    I have none. Sorry, I was just kidding re: the whole 'rigged' thing, but my sense of humour (if you could call it that) doesn't translate very well sometimes.
  • oh........ I totally believed you. I guess we need a "sarcastic" smiley icon.
  • Agreed... I think we do.

    To answer your question more seriously, there have been nights when I've cursed these rigged &*^(%^&! sites up and down.  But, I've been playing online for quite some time now, and if I look at my overall results, I have absolutely no reason to complain.  This, combined with the fact that I appear to be on some sort of a 'roll' lately, has me in a particularly positive mindset when it comes to online poker.

    But trust me, I have felt your pain, and I'm sure I'll be feeling it again soon enough.  All I can say is that you need to keep a close eye on your long-term results.  In one night, or one week, or one month, you may feel like you're never going to drag a pot again, after people put bad beat after bad beat on you.  It will turn, and if it doesn't, you have to consider the possibility that it's not bad luck. 

    Once you rule out bad luck, that leaves you with two options: it's bad play, or the sites are rigged.  The 'rigged' option is MUCH easier to swallow, which is why you see so many 'online poker is rigged ' posts.  (Not many here, fortunately).
  • All good advice.  The rational side of my brain knows all this and feels  the same way.  But if I fold one more 2 7 off and flop comes 7 7 2 I'm gonna f'n scream.
  • I have been involved in the writing and testing of poker software. During the testing the results were mind boggling and I know that the card generator was in fact the best available random generator. Perhaps that is what makes it different for real cards. They are truly random.
  • all_aces wrote:
    It's widely known and understood that UB is, in fact, rigged.
    That is a completely ridiculous claim. Everyone knows it is pokerstars that is rigged!
  • pkrfce9 wrote:
    That is a completely ridiculous claim. Everyone knows it is pokerstars that is rigged!

    I can't possibly dispute the overwhelming literature of statistical evidence that attests to this.

    ScottyZ
  • Fact is that 74.8 percent of all statistics are factitious.
  • Homer: Statistics can be made to prove anything Kent. 14% of all people know that.
  • i beat the %$%^$# outta ub.

    but yes there are periods which i call the UB %$#$ where u just cant win. i adjust accordingly.
  • I hear you...whenever I feel like some variance, I fund my UB account. If I fold 24o, Flop is 244, etc...and I have been smashed on AA/KK too many times to mention...odd.
  • You know a lot of times I see posts like this and I laugh.... but over the course of the past 2 weeks I have seen so many 2 outers hit in the river (not just against me) that I've decided I'm done playing online. I just unistalled UB and TigerGaming.

    I'm not going into a big whinefest but things are seriously ridiculous that make me wonder.
    See y'all at Brantford or Niagara and of course the local games.
  • The bottom line is that even if you think there MIGHT be a chance that the shuffle is rigged online, it's bound to effect your playing in a negative way. Sticking to live games is probably the best course of action... GL Ercules
  • Homer says forfty percent, not 14. Just thought I'd point that out.
  • screenman wrote:
    I have been involved in the writing and testing of poker software. During the testing the results were mind boggling and I know that the card generator was in fact the best available random generator. Perhaps that is what makes it different for real cards. They are truly random.

    What exactly are you implying/saying here?
  • all_aces wrote:
    The bottom line is that even if you think there MIGHT be a chance that the shuffle is rigged online, it's bound to effect your playing in a negative way.  Sticking to live games is probably the best course of action... GL Ercules

    This is exactly my reasoning for not playing online at these 2 particular sites. I find myself thinking I should fold (or call) when I know I shouldn't just because I figure a miracle card will hit either way. It is really frustrating and as you mention it takes me out of my game. I realize that miracle rivers (or runner-runner flush, str8) happen live as well, I also know that I see more hands online which means it will happen more online but.......

    I might put a little into pokerstars and see how that plays out. I haven't played for cash on pokerstars yet so my bias should be limited.
  • Be careful with pokerstars also. They might be the worst of them all. I always get rivered with 2 to 4 outers where the person has no right to be in the pot. I find the cash games brutal and rake hungry. IMO This site is rigged for rake there is no doubt about it. The draw usually hits on the river making for monster pots and rakes. AA vs KK vs KQ and guess what hits the board the one K that can beat me. These sites are making a killing now and are unregulated for the most part. They will set their sites to make as much as they want. As an accountant I realize the auditors are pretty much useless in huge industries. Beware of these sites I am almost out of this site just 50 FFP until I get a bonus and I am gone. Live is where it's at and where I will focus most of my attention.
  • PUNKYMISHA wrote:
    Be careful with pokerstars also.  They might be the worst of them all.

    BIAS ALERT:  Stars fanboi here.  I'm not so sure about this PUNKYMISHA.  I recognize part of my response is ego driven as I've been very happy playing 1/2 NL there the last year.  Here's the other part...I'll use 10/20 NL as the example because there are fewer tables to track.  I often check who's playing these tables and see the same names over and over with nice profits.  The max buyin is 2k and it no longer surprises me to see stacks in the 8k to 14k range.  Players I can list off the top are:    twin-caracas, pbocop, H@&&INGGOL, thorladen and not only don't forget MitchD, just go sit somewhere else when he's in.
    ;)
    PUNKYMISHA wrote:
    As an accountant I realize the auditors are pretty much useless in huge industries.

    I suppose this is a problem I cannot contest, for example, having only taken a couple of accounting courses in high school.  Still, the layman has heard of Enron and others.  So even if they are regulated we can never really know?  I suppose there will always be accusations and dare I say it *flame on* mild conspiracy theories.
  • Literation,  I have made a ton of cash off the site over the last year and a half also but have found that the software has changed and has been more suspect IMO.  I am sure I will be back eventually to take more money from the heard of poor players but I think they are setting the cards in favour of high rake.  I have been on the receiving end of some of these miracles but I have done so only based on the software and sense of a miracle to happen.  Example Holding PP 5 :c: 5 :h: in a flop of A :c: K :s: 10 :s: just to hit 5 :s: on turn and 5 :d: on the river.  I would never play that hand live after a flop like that. Only reason was because I knew(thought) pokerstars would pay me off.   It did.  Any site that requires you to alter your play to win is suspect to me.  Anyways everyone has an opinion on these sites and what they are up to legit or not.  We will never know and this is the best we have for now.  All the best. 
  • PUNKYMISHA wrote:
    Be careful with pokerstars also.  They might be the worst of them all. I always get rivered with 2 to 4 outers where the person has no right to be in the pot. 

    Are you saying PokerStars is making these players call bets? Why would someone not have a right to be in the pot? This is our bread and butter, these bad players that will call us down. I'm sure over time you'd see they rarely hit, the bad beats just stay in our heads longer. I catch myself saying this from time to time after a bad beat as well 'man, he had no business being in that pot!'...but I play my game and usually end up getting my money back inthe long run. I mostly play online poker, but when I do get together with my buds to play live we see these hands as well, it happens, it's poker, and someone usually says 'man, I thought that sh#t only happened online'.
    Someone great, and I'm not sure who it was, but dammit they were great, once said...............shit happens!
    :D
  • PUNKYMISHA wrote:
    IMO This site is rigged for rake there is no doubt about it. The draw usually hits on the river making for monster pots and rakes.

    If it were rigged for rake, there'd be a lot of good hands preflop to bump the pot up, then the flop would kill all hands but one so the hand is completed quickly. This is because the best way to generate rake over time is to churn out many hands per hour with decent pots, not take every hand to the river with tons of betting to slow things down. Lots of poker players like to believe there's some kind of grand conspiracy behind their last couple of bad beats, but absent some nice crunchy statistics backing up such a contention it seems to me that selection bias is the most likely explanation.
  • Only reason was because I knew(thought) pokerstars would pay me off.

    No offense, but if that's your thinking you might have bigger problems than crazy suckouts.  Maybe the masses are thinking these same things and hence there are more ridiculous calls online hence leading to more ridiculous beats.  I think some people overestimate their odds of winning as well.  Eg. if you ask the average player what the odds would be of AA winning 3 consecutive hands vs. say TT preflop allin.  I would imagine most would say something like 2/3 to 3/4 of the time.  In reality the odds of winning all 3 is rougly 50/50.  Even HUGE poker edges in the grand scheme of things are NOT giant edges (compared to the odds against winning the lottery for example).  Order and orders of magnitude in difference...   I think what most people have problems with is not the ridiculous outdraws, but the ridiculous CALLS made by these players (which in the long run should be welcomed).  Just my 2 cents...
  • harthgosh, is that you?
  • No offense taken you all have your opinions on the matter which is great to hear. Big E I am aware that these players are the bread and butter but I do see them hit more then they should percentage wise online. If the percentages were within 1 or 2 % of the true number I wouldn't be saying what I am. But when it is about 10 to 20% different I will wonder and people should. I have documented a lot of hands and the numbers do not lie to me. I will continue to play online because I will always make money at the game but more people should watch a bit closer as IMO these sites are not 100% true. UglyJimStudly the best way to get rake is to maximize the pot. If you can get 30 hands per hour at max rake as opposed to 45 hands at 50% rake due to lower betting then you would be ahead of the game. As mentioned before I have documented a lot of hands as I have logged about 3000 Hrs online so this is not a selection bias. I will continue to play and alter my game to each software if need be. ScoobyD No offense taken I would pit my game against anyone at any time. I have to agree with you on the odds that most people overestimate their chances. But I can tell you for a fact that I will play differently on Pokerstars then I would on other sites or live due to their so called random generator. I have pegged a lot of hands where I know what the turn and river will bring. It is almost too obvious sometimes. When you can play for 2 hours and call the turn and river a number of times it is suspicious. Maybe it's not the site and more my keen perception on poker and maybe I am better then I thought. YA Thats it. WHOOHOOO!!
  • PUNKYMISHA wrote:
    UglyJimStudly the best way to get rake is to maximize the pot.

    No, it's not. Rake is capped at a pot size that varies by limit played, but generally is around 10-20 BBs (less at higher limits) - see the PokerStars rake page for details:

    http://www.pokerstars.com/rake.html

    Since you're an accountant with thousands of hours of online poker experience, I'm sure you'll realize that Poker Stars gains nothing from big pots - they would much rather you play two hands with 20 BB pots than one with 40.
    As mentioned before I have documented a lot of hands as I have logged about 3000 Hrs online so this is not a selection bias.

    Then you'll have no trouble providing actual stats to back up what you're saying. As I'm sure you're aware, selection bias is completely independent of the number of trials, it's based on having a vested interest in particular outcomes; the only way to combat such bias is rigorous record keeping. If your records actually show non-random results, then please put the data on a website somewhere - you'll be the first to do so, which will be a huge service to the online poker community.
  • I am aware that these players are the bread and butter but I do see them hit more then they should percentage wise online. If the percentages were within 1 or 2 % of the true number I wouldn't be saying what I am. But when it is about 10 to 20% different I will wonder and people should. I have documented a lot of hands and the numbers do not lie to me.

    The setup of this statistical experiment worries me a great deal.

    Other than the distribution of the cards you are dealt yourself pre-flop (that is, studying the shuffle algorithm), statistical analysis of card distributions in Texas Holdem is pretty much impossible.

    The crux of the matter is that poker players make decisions which affect which hands will go to a showdown, which hole cards will be present at a showdown, which hands will see a flop dealt, which hands will see a turn card dealt, which hands will see a river card dealt, etc, etc.

    Without being able to model your opponents' decision making algortihms (good luck!), you can't design any meaningful statistical analysis of post-flop events in Texas Holdem.

    ScottyZ
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